Greek referendum

[H_B 1,715]

Maybe, but there seems to be more exposure on this issue now, and you've now got - in Scotland at least - quite an engaged electorate. A lot of people who might not have given a damn in 2011 now like to think of themselves as anti austerity/ pro local democracy and are now active members of an SNP that is still avowedly pro EU.

It's maybe not a big issue in terms of the whole Brexit referendum, but it's an interesting political knot for the SNP leadership to untie.

People are generally quite hypocritical.

At the time in 2011 we had people on here excusing away the EU imposing governments on sovereign states, who would be pro-Independence and anti Westmister. Couldn't make it up.

[AUFC90 852]

One side effect of this on the UK will be the reaction of the electorate to the recent 'negotiations' between the troika and Greece. There will be plenty of people, particularly from the left who value democracy, anti-austerity etc, who will be appalled by the actions of the larger Eurozone. This is manna to the get out campaign who could get some legitimacy from seeing their numbers broadened out from the usual Tory euro-sceptics and UKIP nutters.

It could also be pretty tricky for the SNP, if you get a sufficiently negative reaction from all those left wingers who form much of their new membership. The oft repeated notion that Scotland wanting to stay as the rest of the UK wants to leave would constitute a 'material change' for another referendum would be challenged if the left is sufficiently moved to a negative reaction of the EU.

It's certainly made me consider my EU vote a bit more carefully.

[Fotbawmad 241]

I can't find out what's exactly in the deal. It's a €240bn bailout deal which imposes pensions reforms, spending cuts, tax raises, and some kind of "debt relief". How much I don't know, but to be meaningful it would have to be around 80%. Regardless, it's just kicking the can down the road.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Fotbawmad

[welshbairn 18,848]

I can't find out what's exactly in the deal.

http://t.co/4OeNBKtyqv

[Fotbawmad 241]

http://t.co/4OeNBKtyqv

Essentially, it's about advancing their neo-liberal agenda, by getting a country to privatize it's assets (and getting ownership into the financial institutions and corporations that have close ties with the ECB and IMF). I'm not against privatization in principle, but in practice it means flogging off state owned assets to cronies who then get government subsidies to keep things ticking over. Meaning you have a situation where you have privatized gains and socialized losses.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Fotbawmad

[strichener 1,560]

It would appear that the IMF does not think the current proposal from the EU is tenable and is refusing to participate (which was a condition set by Germany). IMF want massive writeoffs and perhaps a very long moratorium on repayments for as long as 30 years.

Edited July 14, 2015 by strichener

[welshbairn 18,848]

It would appear that the IMF does not think the current proposal from the EU is tenable and is refusing to participate (which was a condition set by Germany). IMF want massive writeoffs and perhaps a very long moratorium on repayments for as long as 30 years.

The report highlights the IMF’s scepticism about Greece’s ability to meet the ultra-tough budget targets insisted upon by its European creditors, and suggests that Athens should receive a 30-year grace period before it has to start paying off its debts. Unless the IMF can convince itself that Greece’s debts are sustainable, it would be forbidden by its own rules to put money into a new bailout.

Fk me, the IMF siding with the wee guy, never seen that before. Really!

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/14/imf-report-greece-needs-more-debt-relief

[HTG 3,908]

The IMF are quite right. Just because Europe and the Eurozone is founded on a pile of lies doesn't mean they have to participate. Greece is fucked and all the austerity in the world isn't going to change that. The IMF doesn't need to concern itself with what Finland, Ireland, Italy or anyone else thinks - those are political issues for the EU rather than economic ones.

[oddly optomistic 45]

Looks like the UK will be paying quite a bit towards the Greek bailout, in the short term anyway.

Assuming the deal goes ahead.

Edited July 15, 2015 by oddly optomistic

[strichener 1,560]

Looks like the UK will be paying quite a bit towards the Greek bailout, in the short term anyway.

Assuming the deal goes ahead.

No cahnce. GO was all over the media insisting that the UK would not be paying a penny. Is this a u-turn?

Or perhaps it is the same as the demand for payment that he managed to get "reduced" and was subsequently pulled up about misleading the country....

[welshbairn 18,848]

I think the UK only have to pay if the IMF do, which is looking less likely unless the Germans do a huge volte face on the debt.

[H_B 1,715]

Looks like the UK will be paying quite a bit towards the Greek bailout, in the short term anyway.

Assuming the deal goes ahead.

How much?

[AberdeenBud 1,731]

The UK will only be contributing if the EFSM is used and even then it's not guaranteed.

[welshbairn 18,848]

The UK is obligated to contribute to the IMF if it is part of the bail out, a billion or so was mentioned.

[oddly optomistic 45]

The UK will only be contributing if the EFSM is used and even then it's not guaranteed.

They were talking about it on Daily Politics saying that if this fund was used the UK would have to contribute around 15% of the short term bailout. Obviously Osborne and co won't want this but I'm not sure I have that much faith in them if this fund is used. They were on about safety mechanisms so UK would be protected against liabilities. I'm afraid that's the extent of my knowledge on the subject.

Of course they could have been talking rubbish

Edited July 15, 2015 by oddly optomistic

[AberdeenBud 1,731]

I can't see how the IMF can contribute given their scathing assessment of the current deal.

Although it's possibly just the Americans using their substantial influence to try and apply some pressure on the Germans & Co over debt relief.

[strichener 1,560]

EU coming out of this looking worse than the greeks. Hmmmm.

[Pete's Frontier 56]

Britain will come out of this bad. Going to cost several billion and we're already in for 11 billion from the previous bail outs. Keep in mind those who are not brain washed gnats that Sturgeon wants us in this club and outside the eurozone, that means iScotland picks up it's share of the tab be it Greece or a much bigger economy like Spain. That alone is grounds to reject her loathsome party outright.

[doulikefish 4,263]

Britain will come out of this bad. Going to cost several billion and we're already in for 11 billion from the previous bail outs. Keep in mind those who are not brain washed gnats that Sturgeon wants us in this club and outside the eurozone, that means iScotland picks up it's share of the tab be it Greece or a much bigger economy like Spain. That alone is grounds to reject her loathsome party outright.

[xbl. 23]

Britain will come out of this bad. Going to cost several billion and we're already in for 11 billion from the previous bail outs.

Ho hum.

Sturgeon wants us in this club and outside the eurozone, that means iScotland picks up it's share of the tab

I wrote much longer post, but Ive decided the above two quotes stand well on their own without additional commentary.