H_B Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Thanks for that. I've read up plenty on the situation. Why should the Greek populace suffer? Lolwut?Do you think a No vote means they aren't going to? Also, as you're really well read on this subject, which option were the Greek right wing Independent Greeks campaigning for? And indeed why has this result been described as a victory for the far left and the far right? What a dullard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 And as I've sad.Don't be sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 As before, Tony Pick, please direct your questions to the nearest wall. I, like many other people on here, have no interest in responding to your pish. Run along now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Yes, another fist gnawingly awful contribution. Care to tell us more about the right wing reaction to the Greek No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Thanks for that. I've read up plenty on the situation. Perhaps I'm just not so much of a whimpering, right wing shitebag as you that I'm pleased the Greeks voted No. Why should the Greek populace suffer? They will suffer no matter what - this is a crisis that has been coming for 30+ years. This is not about independence. It's not really about left or right wing economics. It's always been about keeping the corrupt jobs for the boys within the Greek public sector. 750,000 jobs lost in Greece - guess how many went in the public sector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The #HashtagIndyRef comparisons have been, to coin a phrase, a "total minter" by the way. Anyway, here's a couple of interesting articles: http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/greece-debt-crisis-eurozone-by-jeffrey-d-sachs-2015-07 http://www.politico.eu/article/hype-greece-eurozone-default-debt-panic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 They will suffer no matter what - this is a crisis that has been coming for 30+ years. This is not about independence. It's not really about left or right wing economics. It's always been about keeping the corrupt jobs for the boys within the Greek public sector. 750,000 jobs lost in Greece - guess how many went in the public sector? Public sector jobs are down by 30% since 2009. Wages are down by 37%, consumer spending by 30%, pensions by up to 48%, and unemployment is now 27%. So what they need now is more cuts to get the economy growing? P.S. UK borrowed the equivalent in today's money of $400 Billion from the US during WW2. The interest charged was 2%* over 50 years, but repayments were deferred till 1956 to give the economy a chance of recovering first. Final repayment was made in 2006, we've only just finished repaying the WW1 loans. Greece's loans need similar restructuring if they're going to see a chance of getting out of the mess they're in. * a 2% interest rate over most of the repayment period would be something like a negative 5% rate now. P.S. We used a substantial amount of the cash to set up the NHS, the Yanks were fuming.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The #HashtagIndyRef comparisons have been, to coin a phrase, a "total minter" by the way. Anyway, here's a couple of interesting articles: http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/greece-debt-crisis-eurozone-by-jeffrey-d-sachs-2015-07 http://www.politico.eu/article/hype-greece-eurozone-default-debt-panic/ That Katie Morag tweet everyone was retweeting was proper "but how does this affect me? The protagonist of my own reality." stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I know he polarises opinion but Krugman reckons both Greece and Europe have dodged a bullet. Although he does seem to suggest that the best way forward is a Grexit and I'm slightly dubious of his belief that "the biggest costs of a euro exit have paid already". http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/opinion/paul-krugman-ending-greeces-bleeding.html?_r=0&referrer= This a cracking line though, " The truth is that Europe’s self-styled technocrats are like medieval doctors who insisted on bleeding their patients — and when their treatment made the patients sicker, demanded even more bleeding." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Yan the Man out. What's also forgotten is that other Eurozone members such as Ireland and Latvia took their medicine in return for bailouts - like it or not I doubt they would view any sort of compromise deal that seems too favourable to Greece as being acceptable. There's going to be a lot of political struggles in the next few weeks before we have a clearer idea where Greece is heading. There was an economist on the news last night (apologies, can't remember the name) swatting away the "what about Ireland" argument as the complete nonsense it is. The situations are/were not comparable in the slightest. Whether you're pro or anti-austerity, it's just immature to think there's one tickbox answer to every debt crisis. An equally blinkered person on the other side could just shout Iceland at every mention of unsustainable debt but it wouldn't necessarily be a good argument. It is true that other, actually comparable countries, are the white elephant in the room. Who knows, maybe that's a good thing - with the kicking the can down the road system coming under scrutiny across Europe. Clueless in the extreme.This is not just about the financial big boys but Greece wanting to have the benefits of being in the Eurozone and having everyone else pay for it.It's all and easy to say it's the fault of the financial institutions but Greece has to take some of the blame as well. It was running deficits of 10% or more long before it was a Eurozone member, with a bloated military sector and a corrupt public sector.Read this article http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/20/greece-crisis-ignorance-protest-corruption. I know it 3 years old but it does give a Greek perspective on why their politicians over the last 30 years have been complicit in bringing the Greek economy to its knees. Of course Greece has to take some of the blame, as do the creditors. Does anyone out there still actually think otherwise? The actual question now is how Greece (and Europe) gets out of this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Thank goodness we aren't and hopefully never will be in the Euro. What a clusterfuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Right. So let me give you another opportunity. Take a few paragraphs to describe Greece's current situation. Explain its options and which way (of several) would be best. Describe the likely outcome in socio-economic terms. Show your chosen outcome in terms of currency and political affiliation. I ask you this as you clearly have a familiarity with the country which the rest of us haven't. This is evidenced by your disdain of posters who take issue with you. Now shall you give me a sensible reply or would you prefer to continue being a c**t? Yep, I sure am the one being a c**t here. If you would ask a question that was relevant to my post then you may get a relevant answer. My familiarity with Greece as a country has absolutely nothing to do with debt in any shape or form. The original post I made was to someone who clearly knows the sum root of f**k all about how debt acculumates debt (something that he may have in common with yourself given your continual reference to socio-economics and politics). One simple number for you to get your head around - 6.5% If you can find out what this number represents then you will see where my original point came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Parting shot from Yanis ; http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/ The bbc seemed absolutely incredulous the other night that he was cutting about on a motorbike without any police protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Parting shot from Yanis ; http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/ The bbc seemed absolutely incredulous the other night that he was cutting about on a motorbike without any police protection. I look forward to a re-scheduled appearance on QT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 It's all and easy to say it's the fault of the financial institutions but Greece has to take some of the blame as well. It was running deficits of 10% or more long before it was a Eurozone member, with a bloated military sector and a corrupt public sector. . There's far too much of this... At this stage it's not helpful to talk about 'the greeks' as if the nation can be lumped together so easily. It's lazy in the extreme. The neo-liberal economic system is being tested to the extreme here, and if the international banks aren't careful they'll have a revolution to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamdunk Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 There's far too much of this... At this stage it's not helpful to talk about 'the greeks' as if the nation can be lumped together so easily. It's lazy in the extreme. The neo-liberal economic system is being tested to the extreme here, and if the international banks aren't careful they'll have a revolution to deal with. Just like the Greeks!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavin_3110 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 So Greece spent a lot of borrowed money on different things, they failed to pay back the money as scheduled. A few of the parties who are owed money are now quite upset and would like it back, Greece don't want to make an effort to do so, is that about it? Is winding everything up and starting again as a new country with the same name in the same place and then trying to pass it off as a continuation of the old country an option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Thank goodness we aren't and hopefully never will be in a currency union. What a clusterfuck. FTFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Parting shot from Yanis ; http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/ The bbc seemed absolutely incredulous the other night that he was cutting about on a motorbike without any police protection. He looks like people need protection from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 FTFY That too. Shows the dangers of having one currency with different fiscal policies. Look at the state of Puerto Rico as another example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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