Greek referendum

[DeeTillEhDeh]

So it seems Greece has accepted an austerity package that isn't any better than the one the country just voted against. Why?

To save face - especially Syriza's and Tsipras's.

[houston_bud]

Bought them a few days I guess, and if you are a moron you might think this is different because it's been proposed by their government not imposed on them.

But as I said after the bizarre celebrations on here after the No vote the end result had to be the same. The creditors hold all the cards and the only acceptable programme for them will be the one they proposed weeks ago.

Tsipras now has the difficult job of explaining to the Greeks why a turd isn't a turd.

I agree that celebrations were bizarre, the outcome was never going to be pretty. The no vote was never a vote against austerity in its entirety either. It's difficult to see where Syriza go from here. What's worrying is that some desperate people might start voting Golden Dawn, who aren't insignificant in Greece.

[H_B]

I agree that celebrations were bizarre, the outcome was never going to be pretty. The no vote was never a vote against austerity in its entirety either. It's difficult to see where Syriza go from here. What's worrying is that some desperate people might start voting Golden Dawn, who aren't insignificant in Greece.

He faces a split in his party already as the left wingers are saying 'eh, wait a minute here'.

It was astonishing that there were people on here clueless enough to believe the referendum win meant the Greeks held the whip hand . Frightening stupidity.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

He faces a split in his party already as the left wingers are saying 'eh, wait a minute here'.

It was astonishing that there were people on here clueless enough to believe the referendum win meant the Greeks held the whip hand . Frightening stupidity.

That an insult to the stupid.

[H_B]

The Greeks really have been led up the path by Tsipras here.

No wonder Varoufakis is nowhere to be seen. You must be able to light Athens with his red face.

Vote No to austerity and humiliation!!! Get.. Oh..

[Enigma]

I agree that celebrations were bizarre, the outcome was never going to be pretty. The no vote was never a vote against austerity in its entirety either. It's difficult to see where Syriza go from here. What's worrying is that some desperate people might start voting Golden Dawn, who aren't insignificant in Greece.

That's the danger. The next few years aren't going to be pretty for the Greeks. The neo-NAZIs will appeal to the desperate, especially as long as Somalians and Syrians continue to wash up on their shores.

[H_B]

Of course they will, they've got no choice, called the Greek bluff and lost.

Did they aye?

[AberdeenBud]

He's not hiding that successfully, he's found time for a piece in the Graun.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/10/germany-greek-pain-debt-relief-grexit

I suppose debt relief is the only straw the Greeks can clutch at the moment to argue that the last few weeks have achieved anything positive for them.

This just screams of kicking the can down the road but a slow painful strangulation is obviously seen as preferable by most of the main players to the short sharp shock of a Grexit.

You could argue there's almost at much at Stake for Merkel as there is for Tsipras. Another decent Der Spiegel article on that subject and the German view.

http://m.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-1043109.html

Also reports in Bild of the rift between Schauble and Merkel now widening and threatening an agreement.

[Pete's Frontier]

Hope Sturgeon is taking notes on this likely Greek collapse as that is where she is steering Scotland, or would if she could get away with it.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Hope Sturgeon is taking notes on this likely Greek collapse as that is where she is steering Scotland, or would if she could get away with it.

I have said before that there would be only one thing preventing an iScotland flourishing - poor economic policies by whoever governed the country. It's one reason John Swinney has been the target of some of my comments. Maybe the SNP will have learned from the referendum that the economy is still their Achilles heel, not only on currency but also planned expenditure. Being prudent might upset some elements within the Yes support but I think would win over some of the doubters of soft No voters.

[Pete's Frontier]

I have said before that there would be only one thing preventing an iScotland flourishing - poor economic policies by whoever governed the country. It's one reason John Swinney has been the target of some of my comments. Maybe the SNP will have learned from the referendum that the economy is still their Achilles heel, not only on currency but also planned expenditure. Being prudent might upset some elements within the Yes support but I think would win over some of the doubters of soft No voters.

Their numbers and claims are not even close to adding up, this is why I'm opposed to iScotland. They've managed to bribe the masses with free prescriptions, fees exempt higher education, council tax freezes... all paid for by the Barnett formula they want to replace, but they're ideologically driven and are not telling the truth. We saw that with their North Sea oil revenue claims during the referendum. Spectacularly wrong. £35bn wrong. They are muppets.

[H_B]

He's not hiding that successfully, he's found time for a piece in the Graun.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/10/germany-greek-pain-debt-relief-grexit

I suppose debt relief is the only straw the Greeks can clutch at the moment to argue that the last few weeks have achieved anything positive for them.

This just screams of kicking the can down the road but a slow painful strangulation is obviously seen as preferable by most of the main players to the short sharp shock of a Grexit.

You could argue there's almost at much at Stake for Merkel as there is for Tsipras. Another decent Der Spiegel article on that subject and the German view.

http://m.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-1043109.html

Also reports in Bild of the rift between Schauble and Merkel now widening and threatening an agreement.

Marathon talks on Saturday had ended without agreement and Eurogroup leader Jeroen Dijsselbloem described negotiations as "very difficult".

"We have had an in-depth discussion of the Greek proposals, the issue of credibility and trust was discussed and also of course financial issues involved, but we haven't concluded our discussions," Mr Dijsselbloem, who heads the Eurogroup of finance ministers, told reporters.

"It is still very difficult but work is in progress."

Their problem now is that no one wants to throw good money after bad, and no one believes the Greeks are acting in good faith.

So you run the risk here of Tsipras saying the right things to get the new influx of money, then failing to do as he promises, leaving you in the same situation in a few months time, but down another chunk of billions.

[Zetterlund]

[sparky88]

The summit of EU leaders has been cancelled, depriving David Cameron of his chance to issue a 'roon ye' to eurozone members.

It seems that the situation is worse now for greece than before the referendum, with the eurozone unconvinced that tspiras is serious about implementing the terms of the bailout. I think Greeks may be using the drachma soon....

Or the rouble

[AberdeenBud]

Marathon talks on Saturday had ended without agreement and Eurogroup leader Jeroen Dijsselbloem described negotiations as "very difficult".

"We have had an in-depth discussion of the Greek proposals, the issue of credibility and trust was discussed and also of course financial issues involved, but we haven't concluded our discussions," Mr Dijsselbloem, who heads the Eurogroup of finance ministers, told reporters.

"It is still very difficult but work is in progress."

Their problem now is that no one wants to throw good money after bad, and no one believes the Greeks are acting in good faith.

So you run the risk here of Tsipras saying the right things to get the new influx of money, then failing to do as he promises, leaving you in the same situation in a few months time, but down another chunk of billions.

Think the Germans have had it tbh. Although looks like they don't want to be seen to be shoving Greece out so are going to impose unrealistic conditions on any new proposal.

In fact looks now like they're trying to tease the Greeks towards a Grexit with a bit carrot as well as stick.

Absolutely no way Schauble is flying a kite here either, this must have Merkel's approval.

[Pete's Frontier]

Those pesky Finns are saying oxi. Imagine an independent Scotland, as Sturgeon and muppets still want, after all the tartan flag waving you get a wee bill, like Finland has, for a few bil to bail out Greece AGAIN. I mean, gnats, please explain why iScotland should bail out Greece with billions? I'm all ears. Finland are are heading for their own Finxit.

[AberdeenBud]

Troll off you moron.

[Pete's Frontier]

Troll off you moron.

Talking to yourself, AbFud?

[welshbairn]

Great graphics here showing the debt: http://demonocracy.info/infographics/eu/debt_greek/debt_greek.html

[AberdeenBud]

Greek official: €zone’s plan for privatizing €50B of greek assets is “on another planet” for@atsipras & temporary #Grexit "100 percent No.”