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Greek referendum

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Following several days of negotiations with the ECB, the IMF and other creditors the Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has said there will be a referendum on the bailout terms. The vote will take place a week on Sunday. Tsipras has said that the ultimatum is "un-European" and a "humiliation".

A yes vote will mean further public spending cuts. A no vote? Well that remains to be seen, it would likely lead to a default and possible 'Grexit'.

How do P&Bers see it going?

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Following several days of negotiations with the ECB, the IMF and other creditors the Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has said there will be a referendum on the bailout terms. The vote will take place a week on Sunday. Tsipras has said that the ultimatum is "un-European" and a "humiliation".A yes vote will mean further public spending cuts. A no vote? Well that remains to be seen, it would likely lead to a default and possible 'Grexit'.How do P&Bers see it going?

Cheap holidays to Kos with drachma.

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They'll vote yes, same we we voted no out of fear of a Sexit from the Pound.

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Fair play to Tsipras, this was probably the only route he could feasibly take imo. Although events may overtake him by the time of his proposed referendum.

Surely a No vote doesn't make default and a return to the Drachma likely, it guarantees it.

Edited by AberdeenBud

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Will be arriving in Athens on, erm, Sunday 5th July: should be a rather interesting trip now. There doesn't seem to be an obvious way out of the current impasse. Default and a return to the drachma is not that, given that Greece would still have to import basic goods such as oil in a rapidly devaluing currency.

I honestly would not be massively surprised if a combined political/military challenge developed to the current Greek government; its recent democracy is not well-rooted enough to fully cope with this situation. Indeed, direct democracy in a referendum would now both directly challenge the interests of European-wide creditors and the conservative, pro-austerity, pro-Euro groups within the country.

For all the froth in the press about agreements 'kicking the can further down the road', that is precisely what is needed again right now. Doing so over recent years has already helped to pull Spain, Portugal, Ireland away from any contagion from a Greek exit. The Greek political system also needs time to adapt to the last election results and for Syriza to succeed or fail based on their own record in government, rather than external pressure. Forcing a deadline while Greek political opinion hates every credible option on the table is not going to end well.

Edited by vikingTON

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If the Generals did take over again on a platform to keep Greece in the Euro, I wonder if the EU would make an exception for them breaking all the rules of democracy, justice, governance etc that they insist on for new entrants. I bet they would, calling it an interim arrangement. Turkey would be a bit put out.

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Pissing in the dark now but it seems like both the EU and Turkey have decided that its never going to happen, and are happy to let negotiations slowly fizzle out without a formal break. It's unworkable for both parties and besides, the dissolution of the Middle East now makes it unthinkable.

A pro-austerity, anti-democratic Greek government would be the acid test for the idea of a European union; you'd like to think the states would at least split down the middle on the principle.

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It's important to understand it's not Greece getting bailed out. It's German and French banks (who by all means are technically insolvent) getting bailed out. These banks made bad loans to Greece, but likely did so because they saw the immediate short term gains and knew the EU would bail them out when the loans turned sour. Much of those loans should be null and void due to the odious nature of them. In a situation where you have a distressed debtor. You don't just provide them with more loans and tell them to practice austerity. That's a form of predatory lending. You're supposed to give them debt relief and restructuring.

Edited by Fotbawmad

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Following several days of negotiations with the ECB, the IMF and other creditors the Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has said there will be a referendum on the bailout terms. The vote will take place a week on Sunday. Tsipras has said that the ultimatum is "un-European" and a "humiliation". A yes vote will mean further public spending cuts. A no vote? Well that remains to be seen, it would likely lead to a default and possible 'Grexit'. How do P&Bers see it going?

Looks like the Euro is “a millstone round Greece’s neck” –where did I hear that- A decent politician would call a general election, but Tsipras knows he would likely lose so he chose’s the path of least resistance to keep power. But power like electricity follows all possible paths in inverse proportion to its resistance. The quicker the Greeks choose to default and punt the Euro the sooner they will flourish.

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I can only imagine the media fearmongering the Greek people are about to be subjected to before the referendum. Hopefully they vote against the creditors' terms, default and leave the euro, which in the long term will be better for them than the continued looting of their country by predatory lenders.

Syriza put themselves in an impossible situation when they promised voters they'd end austerity and stay in the euro. Now we'll see what the people want more.

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In't it strange that ukip over here want England & us owt t'Europe market thingy & they're reet of the conservatives, whilst it's a lefty party in Greece that will be taking them out of the EU market thingy, ya-know.

Maybees the english ukip should take an olive leaf fae the Greeks eh?

What's a Greek earn?

Grimbo

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Any point in this now emergency funding has been rejected?

Capitol controls and more on Monday I imagine. Tsipras might have been better calling the referendum a couple of weeks ago, or a GE. He really is between a rock and a hard place though.

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Syriza put themselves in an impossible situation when they promised voters they'd end austerity and stay in the euro. Now we'll see what the people want more.

They offered the public what they want, which is both of those things. That those have become increasingly difficult to reconcile doesn't appear to be either here nor there.

At least the voters will get to choose which way they want it, provided things don't implode next week.

Edited by Michael W

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In't it strange that ukip over here want England & us owt t'Europe market thingy & they're reet of the conservatives, whilst it's a lefty party in Greece that will be taking them out of the EU market thingy, ya-know.

Maybees the english ukip should take an olive leaf fae the Greeks eh?

What's a Greek earn?

Grimbo

UKIP is an abbreviation that you should be well aware of. "English" does not appear in the abbreviation. Have you ever thought why “abbreviation” is such a long word? When you’ve come down from whatever you’re on, please get back on it.

The Eric & Ernie joke is very funny and british. Glad to see you sub-conscientiously revealing your British side. Make you proud to be British!

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The Greek government should have continued with the policy on which they were elected. They knew exactly what the implications of this policy were and revived huge public support. Anything else, including a referendum, is a betrayal.

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