Bob in Denny Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 13 hours ago, Greenacres said: That is true you missed out on Reilly and Wilson but you got O'Connor he is a excellent defender really surprised Motherwell released him after a very good loan with us . Plenty of time and players available I wish the fella well at QOS... his living first and foremost is his priority.. I'm sure Dougie will get someone of the same calibre, and maybe better.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 10 hours ago, qos1990 said: You did. There's nothing, anywhere that suggests we did other than assumption. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Pity about Wilson as I was warming to him in the end and hoped he would sign on again. Great signing for Queens and along with Reilly signing they are looking like dark horses for promotion. League 1 shaping up to be a cracking league next season although I'm glad we're not in it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSaints1877 Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Colkitto said: League 1 shaping up to be a cracking league next season although I'm glad we're not in it! Give it a season. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
port-ton Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 10 hours ago, Jamie_M said: There's nothing, anywhere that suggests we did other than assumption. It's more than assumption though isn't it? Dougie offered every single key member of the squad new deals, and Reilly was one of the most key players under him. If championship and league one teams were competing for him there's almost a zero percent chance that we weren't one of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 57 minutes ago, port-ton said: It's more than assumption though isn't it? Dougie offered every single key member of the squad new deals, and Reilly was one of the most key players under him. If championship and league one teams were competing for him there's almost a zero percent chance that we weren't one of them. So it's assumption then? There is nothing to suggest we attempted to keep any of the loan players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamOakTree1 Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Wilson is okay but not a player I’d pay money to watch. I feel Imrie has an upgrade in mind, perhaps a Stephen McGinn type, who is much more composed and can keep the ball -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 On 02/06/2022 at 21:02, Bob in Denny said: Players come, players go.. Next man up please The bigger issue is signing up Lyon in January and then Blues last week. If we were working off a clean slate to bring in good central midfielders then I'd be much more confident that we'll replace Wilson. We've already stupidly tied ourselves down though (on two year deals - Wake help us) with two demonstrably poorer options - and Jacobs is still on the books as well. Blues should not have been offered a deal until we knew where Wilson was going, and if that meant Alloa or Cove 'swooped' for him in the meantime then nothing of value would have been lost. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 On 04/06/2022 at 17:23, virginton said: The bigger issue is signing up Lyon in January and then Blues last week. If we were working off a clean slate to bring in good central midfielders then I'd be much more confident that we'll replace Wilson. We've already stupidly tied ourselves down though (on two year deals - Wake help us) with two demonstrably poorer options - and Jacobs is still on the books as well. Blues should not have been offered a deal until we knew where Wilson was going, and if that meant Alloa or Cove 'swooped' for him in the meantime then nothing of value would have been lost. I know Lyon seems to have struggled a bit last season but we know there's a player there, and generally when he came on he improved the team. Blues appears to have improved (from a low bar starting point) but if it was a choice between him and a better midfielder, I'd have been happy to see him move on. I don't actually think Wilson was that good - his tectonic plate movement goal against Dunfermline seemed to sum him up in the 300,000 years it took to reach the net after he hit it. By no means a total dud like so many we've had over the last 20 years, but he's not as good a some are claiming. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of B A R P Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 We need to wait until we see what we have in centre-mid overall, rather than get bogged down in the respective merits of individual players, all of whom are flawed in one way or another... but all of whom could play a role if the balance is right (Wilson was also in that category, nothing more). At the moment, we have Jacobs, Lyon, Blues, and McGrattan... so we'll definitely be signing another player in there (two if Jacobs is moved on or McGrattan is loaned out), because, quite apart from numbers, there's absolutely no way that's good enough. Much more concerned about Hamilton, Strapp, and Ugwu, because if we're also having to replace them, Imrie really will have some job on his hands between now and August. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamOakTree1 Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 2 hours ago, Alibi said: I know Lyon seems to have struggled a bit last season but we know there's a player there, and generally when he came on he improved the team. Blues appears to have improved (from a low bar starting point) but if it was a choice between him and a better midfielder, I'd have been happy to see him move on. I don't actually think Wilson was that good - his tectonic plate movement goal against Dunfermline seemed to sum him up in the 300,000 years it took to reach the net after he hit it. By no means a total dud like so many we've had over the last 20 years, but he's not as good a some are claiming. With the midfielders you’ve mentioned, I don’t think we could play 4-3-3 as has been suggested as Dougie’s preference. I think 4-4-2 would need to be the formation to accommodate those players, as they don’t have the quality to play as an effective three. With our current squad if our best players decide to take up the offer to stay, I think our most effective first eleven would be: Hamilton Pignatiello McLean Lithgow Strapp Lyon Jacobs Blues McGrattan Muirhead Ugwu not promotion challenging but maybe the basis for something if we can add 2 or 3 imaginative signings to bolster them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamOakTree1 Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 15 minutes ago, DreamOakTree1 said: With the midfielders you’ve mentioned, I don’t think we could play 4-3-3 as has been suggested as Dougie’s preference. I think 4-4-2 would need to be the formation to accommodate those players, as they don’t have the quality to play as an effective three. With our current squad if our best players decide to take up the offer to stay, I think our most effective first eleven would be: Hamilton Pignatiello McLean Lithgow Strapp Lyon Jacobs Blues McGrattan Muirhead Ugwu not promotion challenging but maybe the basis for something if we can add 2 or 3 imaginative signings to bolster them I forgot we’d signed Baird and Connor who may be better in a back four! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 We can, and will, do better than a three of Jacobs, Lyons and Blues but they can play in that three. Jacobs and Lyons playing the deeper roles with Blues further forward could work (albeit without much creativity) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madton Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 9 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: We can, and will, do better than a three of Jacobs, Lyons and Blues but they can play in that three. Jacobs and Lyons playing the deeper roles with Blues further forward could work (albeit without much creativity) Aye agreed, they can play in a 3 but I'd like to think we will start the season with better options. I'd say only Blues has a realistic starting place of those 3 going by Dougie's first few months in charge. Wouldn't mind Blues being in there as long as the other 2 were of the required quality. With Lithgow missing the start of the season, I'd expect us to start with 4 at the back and if we start well, he might struggle to get back in. We are going into our 14th out of 15 season in the Championship next season, safe to say its our level. An average position of 6.5. We are a classic mid table second tier team if ever there was one. Hopefully Dougie can continue to recruit well and push for top 4. For me, assuming its 433, we still need, GK X 2. LB Midfielder x 2 Winger x 2 Striker x 2 That would give us a 1st team squad of 17 with Hynes, McGrattan, King, Garrity, Easdale and McGregor as back ups. McGrattan, King and Garrity have all shown potential so you'd like to think they could do a job if called upon. Ideally I'd like to see Jacobs move on as clearly not in Doogie's plans but will be hard to shift. Hynes too, but at the same time, he is probably on peanuts and we need back up options so happy for him to stay as backup to Pignatiello. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 I'm fine with Jacobs getting a chance next season. While he's been very poor whenever he's played so far under Imrie, that's also been pretty much entirely in front of a back three and he's never looked good in front of a back three in his whole time at the club. With the switch to 4-3-3 the system should suit him better. The issue is that even if Jacobs is now going to be first choice, Wilson going means we probably need to sign another holding midfielder anyway, unless we want to go back to leaving acres of space at the edge of the box with Lyon or Blues being played there. We don't know how exactly Imrie envisages the midfield three being set up and you can't entirely pigeon hole players into one role (Lyon and Blues have both played in all of them at some point) but looking at what we have currently I think you can loosely describe their best roles as follows: Holding midfielders: Jacobs Box to box: Lyon, Blues Playmaker: McGrattan There's also Alex King to consider, but we should really be getting him out on loan to League 2 to play regularly rather than launching him in to play in holding midfield if Jacobs gets injured. Obviously that's a very simplistic way of looking at things as players can adjust their role from game to game, and maybe Imrie doesn't envisage having a playmaker in the midfield three at all but is happy having two holding or box to box types in there, with the focus on creativity coming from the front three and full backs. Alternatively maybe if it came to it he'd be happy to just try Blues or Lyon as a playmaker or holding midfielder in the event of injuries. I broadly think though that if you're looking for a midfield three with one of each of those types (Bachirou-Hardie-Tidser/ Millar-Lyon-Tidser/ Jacobs-McAlister-Colville all being examples from the last decade) and were wanting build a squad to push into the top half competing for the playoffs, you want none of the currently signed players starting games. A midfield three of Wilson, a new box to box midfielder and a new playmaker that are upgrades on Blues/Lyon and Oliver, with cover from Jacobs, Blues, Lyon and McGrattan? That would have been a definite improvement on last season and a sign we're moving in the right direction. Instead, we're now looking at our options in those positions being Jacobs (a downgrade on Wilson), one of Lyon/Blues (no prospect of upgrading now with both retained and the amount still needing done to the squad) and hopefully a new playmaker to come. Then you've only got whichever of Lyon/Blues doesn't start, King and McGrattan as cover. That would be worse off than we were last season so we obviously need more quality than that, but with the amount still needing done to the squad it's going to be a stretch to find the space in the budget for them. We're possibly needing a new first choice goalkeeper and left back, we need cover for both even if Hamilton & Strapp stay, even if Ugwu stays we need at least two more forwards, then there's that playmaker. We really can't afford to waste wages on Oliver and McLean or we're simply not going to have the room to improve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of B A R P Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 If we start this season with Jacobs-Lyon-Actual Football Player in centre-mid, with Blues and McGrattan on the bench, that will be stronger than we were last season at any point. It’s all about the level of who comes in. Long way to go (see also up front)… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 21 hours ago, madton said: GK X 2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Nor should. Pointless to waste a fulltime wage on a player who will be lucky to play a handful of games over a season. If the 1st choice keeper gets injured: emergency loan time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 20 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: Nor should. Pointless to waste a fulltime wage on a player who will be lucky to play a handful of games over a season. If the 1st choice keeper gets injured: emergency loan time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madton Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Agree we shouldn't waste budget on two 1st team keepers but we absolutely need a young kid who can sit on the bench and come on in a game if need be. If our number 1 picks up a serious injury then of course we bring in an emergency loan. However our 1st choice keeper could get send off/ go off injured early in a game and we absolutely need someone on the bench to come in and do a job. A 18/19 year old on peanuts is fine, but its needed, hence the need for 2 keepers! If BySouth was still here, then we would only need one, but he has gone according to this, https://pfascotland.co.uk/player-availability-list/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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