The Greenock Morton Thread - It's Better Than Yours

[Dunning1874]

15 hours ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

I’m not sure he’s looking for two better strikers than Muirhead and Oliver, as he’s just signed them both up. If he’s going for “quality over quantity” then he couldn’t afford to waste two of his limited number of signing options to then replace them. 

Quality over quantity means not stockpiling a dozen identikit players without paying attention to how good any of them are like Hopkin did, it doesn't mean only having two players who can play up front. The conclusion of the argument that it means you can't sign players better than the ones you have already would be building a squad of 11. 

Having two strikers better than Muirhead and Oliver with the two of them as cover would have us a lot closer to quality over quantity than the two of them as starters with Easdale and some jobber as cover, and certainly closer to it than having Kalvin Orsi, James Wallace and another dozen 'can play anywhere across the front three' types bloating the squad.

It's possible that we will end up with one or both of them as starters, but signing better than them wouldn't disprove we're going for a quality over quantity approach - if anything it's entirely necessary to confirm that's the plan, and you can argue that even keeping them as cover has contradicted it.

While I agree that the plan now definitely is for Muirhead to be used as a number 9 and only get shunted elsewhere as a last resort, in contrast with Hopkin using him in defence more than up front, it's worth noting that this 5 goals in 8 games record that's being talked up involved 4 goals against League One opposition. He's only scored once against a Championship team in two seasons.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

1 hour ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

I’ll need to bow to your superior knowledge of Muirhead. It was Gus’s referring to him as “excellent” in the striking role after the first game against Airdrie that made me think that after the second game that Gus re-signed him with that role in mind. He also scored 5 in his last 8 games, which were spread out over this year, as he hardly started a game. My reference to a solid foundation is that’s it’s a good way to start building a squad. I realise we need to add to the creative side, although I’m unsure why Gus re-signed Oliver if he’s planning to replace him before our first game. 

We have ten players signed (not including the boys). There will be a minimum six to come. If the defensive base is already reasonably solid, it’s reasonable (and necessary) to think the bulk of those will be further forward.

I expected us to re-sign Oliver and am more or less happy we did, but I’ll be amazed (and concerned) if we start the season with him as first choice central striker.

We need at least two who can play there... and I’d be even more concerned if McPherson thinks Muirhead is the other.

51 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

While I agree that the plan now definitely is for Muirhead to be used as a number 9 and only get shunted elsewhere as a last resort, in contrast with Hopkin using him in defence more than up front, it's worth noting that this 5 goals in 8 games record that's being talked up involved 4 goals against League One opposition. He's only scored once against a Championship team in two seasons.

As above, I’d be concerned if Muirhead plays anywhere other than left of a front three; retaining him only makes any sense if we’re sticking with 4-3-3.

Apart from his scoring record (!), there were games where he came on as a ‘number 9’, looked as though he was desperately trying to remember what a centre-forward is supposed to do, then disappeared out of the game altogether.

As you say, kicking off this season with Oliver and Muirhead in a front two would be one weird interpretation of ‘quality over quantity’ (whereas those players being two of a group of five competing for three slots up front is perfectly ok).

[DreamOakTree1]

Dunning and Ghost, I’ll be happy if MCT/Gus’s plans coincide with your interpretations/hopes. I was reading it that the smaller squad will mean everyone who’s signed or re-signed will be a part of the match day squad every game, therefore Gus (not me) thinks that keeping those players aligns with that plan. It sounds from MCT yesterday that the squad building process is ongoing with the budget in place, so both you’re interpretations could be more promising than mine, I certainly hope so.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

41 minutes ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

Dunning and Ghost, I’ll be happy if MCT/Gus’s plans coincide with your interpretations/hopes. I was reading it that the smaller squad will mean everyone who’s signed or re-signed will be a part of the match day squad every game, therefore Gus (not me) thinks that keeping those players aligns with that plan. It sounds from MCT yesterday that the squad building process is ongoing with the budget in place, so both you’re interpretations could be more promising than mine, I certainly hope so.

Yeah, I think we initially got bogged down in a false opposition between 'total clear-out' and 'continuity'; the reality is that it's somewhere in between, with a core of players (more than some would have liked) being retained, then -- hopefully -- better players coming in on top of that. In the years before one-year contracts became standard, that was exactly how you went about improving your squad, i.e. you don't need to throw away your old squad in order to get a better one.

I might be being over-optimistic about McPherson's intentions, but he surely can't run with anything less than 16 'professionals', plus the four boys (and more likely 17 or 18). The first big test he has to pass is to ensure that the majority of the six (minimum) still to come improve the first team (and all of them come into a core 14 who might expect to play fairly regularly).

The big variable for me is whether 'quality over quantity' means we can push the boat out for two 'big' signings, on the basis that, rather than chucking £500 a week at a couple of squad options, you add that to the £750 (?guess) you're paying the likes of Jacobs and Lithgow and try to attract better quality in a couple of key positions, loan or permanent. (Put another way, bundle up everything spent on Omar, Wallace, Johnson, Sterling, and the ghost goalie and sign an actual centre-forward who might actually score goals).

As I say, that might well be far too optimistic...

[AsimButtHitsASix]

So we're after Biabi and Blair from Stenhousemuir (two of a seemingly never ending stream of young players who went to Swansea from Falkirk before disappearing) and Stevie Mallan (aye, right) and Colville's away for sure. 

I'm not against signing younger players from the seasides who have a bit of potential and could turn into a decent player but aren't these two in their mid 20s and playing for a Stenhousemuir team who had a bit of a shite season? I think Blair's a winger and Biabi's a striker. If we had good first choice options in those positions I wouldn't be against bringing them in as squad players who might be able to push on. We need to make those sort of gambles. We don't tho' so I have the fear.

Naw even gonna pretend Mallan would dingy the entire bottom half of the Premiership and half a dozen Championship clubs with better pay and prospects that turn up here.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

11 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

So we're after Biabi and Blair from Stenhousemuir (two of a seemingly never ending stream of young players who went to Swansea from Falkirk before disappearing) and Stevie Mallan (aye, right) and Colville's away for sure. 

I'm not against signing younger players from the seasides who have a bit of potential and could turn into a decent player but aren't these two in their mid 20s and playing for a Stenhousemuir team who had a bit of a shite season? I think Blair's a winger and Biabi's a striker. If we had good first choice options in those positions I wouldn't be against bringing them in as squad players who might be able to push on. We need to make those sort of gambles. We don't tho' so I have the fear.

Naw even gonna pretend Mallan would dingy the entire bottom half of the Premiership and half a dozen Championship clubs with better pay and prospects that turn up here.

The first two would sink the whole 'quality over quantity' piss-take at a stroke (but I can see McPherson thinking Biabi might be a better strong-running option down the right than Salkeld).

The Mallan thing should give us some encouragement, even if we don't get him: evidence that we're willing to push a couple of wages in order to attract better quality, as suggested above.

[ShaggerG]

On 17/06/2021 at 15:15, AsimButtHitsASix said:

So we're after Biabi and Blair from Stenhousemuir (two of a seemingly never ending stream of young players who went to Swansea from Falkirk before disappearing) and Stevie Mallan (aye, right) and Colville's away for sure. 

I'm not against signing younger players from the seasides who have a bit of potential and could turn into a decent player but aren't these two in their mid 20s and playing for a Stenhousemuir team who had a bit of a shite season? I think Blair's a winger and Biabi's a striker. If we had good first choice options in those positions I wouldn't be against bringing them in as squad players who might be able to push on. We need to make those sort of gambles. We don't tho' so I have the fear.

Naw even gonna pretend Mallan would dingy the entire bottom half of the Premiership and half a dozen Championship clubs with better pay and prospects that turn up here.

Blair's a central midfielder.

[Benidorm]

On 17/06/2021 at 15:15, AsimButtHitsASix said:

So we're after Biabi and Blair from Stenhousemuir (two of a seemingly never ending stream of young players who went to Swansea from Falkirk before disappearing) and Stevie Mallan (aye, right) and Colville's away for sure. 

I'm not against signing younger players from the seasides who have a bit of potential and could turn into a decent player but aren't these two in their mid 20s and playing for a Stenhousemuir team who had a bit of a shite season? I think Blair's a winger and Biabi's a striker. If we had good first choice options in those positions I wouldn't be against bringing them in as squad players who might be able to push on. We need to make those sort of gambles. We don't tho' so I have the fear.

Naw even gonna pretend Mallan would dingy the entire bottom half of the Premiership and half a dozen Championship clubs with better pay and prospects that turn up here.

Morton team photo 2021/22

[The Ghost of B A R P]

Whatever you think of McAdams, him signing for Ayr -- presumably for more money -- is a worrying sign. For all the shouts for a 'clear-out', it was always going to be about the quality of the replacements we could bring in.

McPherson's task is very clear:

Goalkeeper as good as (or better) than McAdams (plus back-up);

Centre-mid remotely in the same class as McGinn;

Two wide players as good as Nesbitt and McGuffie (or one who's clearly better);

A central striker better than Gary Oliver.

Five first-team starters (four at an absolute minimum) to make us competitive.  Anything short of that and we know what lies ahead.

[SpoonTon]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

Whatever you think of McAdams, him signing for Ayr -- presumably for more money -- is a worrying sign. For all the shouts for a 'clear-out', it was always going to be about the quality of the replacements we could bring in.

McPherson's task is very clear:

Goalkeeper as good as (or better) than McAdams (plus back-up);

Centre-mid remotely in the same class as McGinn;

Two wide players as good as Nesbitt and McGuffie (or one who's clearly better);

A central striker better than Gary Oliver.

Five first-team starters (four at an absolute minimum) to make us competitive.  Anything short of that and we know what lies ahead.

I'm guessing the main reason will be Hoppy. They've all been very keen to go down there and sign for a manager who was willing to resign to keep them in a job last season. He knows exactly what he's getting down there. From that point of view, I'm not too worried.

It is a bit more worrying that we've not managed to sign our targets. We've only managed one new signing so far, and I can't imagine that doesn't indicate that quite a few players have turned us down. I wouldn't mind waiting on 2, 3, or even 4 signings at this stage, but we've maybe got 8 to go (and the worry that we have one or two too many mediocre players as it is). 

 

[The Ghost of B A R P]

15 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

I'm guessing the main reason will be Hoppy. They've all been very keen to go down there and sign for a manager who was willing to resign to keep them in a job last season. He knows exactly what he's getting down there. From that point of view, I'm not too worried.

It is a bit more worrying that we've not managed to sign our targets. We've only managed one new signing so far, and I can't imagine that doesn't indicate that quite a few players have turned us down. I wouldn't mind waiting on 2, 3, or even 4 signings at this stage, but we've maybe got 8 to go (and the worry that we have one or two too many mediocre players as it is). 

 

If Ayr offered him what we offered him and he chose them/Hopkin, fair enough; if we’re getting outbid (and not from a Killie or a Dunfermline) on a player we’d want to keep, that has implications for what we can expect incoming.

Agree we might make 8 more signings (including loans); key is that 4/5 of those aren’t just ‘squad options’, but guys who’ll improve the first eleven.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

I know a decent number of players have spoke highly about playing under Hopkin but he's hardly Guardiola. He doesn't have a great track record of improving players. If Morton and Ayr offered the same amount and he chose Ayr because of the manager I'd be wondering how big of a p***k McPherson is. I'm presuming he's on a better wage or longer contract.

[madton]

Strange move, sideways rather than stepping up. Presumably it's a better deal for the boy which is fair enough. Expected to see him show up at a bigger club.

Hoping Gus could have matched it but has decided not too rather than us losing out to the financial powerhouse that is Ayr United.

Good keeper who should do well. Not perfect but very competent at this level. Goes with my best wishes after a good season 

Gus better get the finger out. Need players this week. I'm glad to an extend that he doesn't appear to be panic buying any old shite just for the sake of it but at the same time we are only a couple of weeks away from our first cup game and we have 10 players so 2/3 quality players this week is a must.

 

 

[SpoonTon]

1 hour ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

I know a decent number of players have spoke highly about playing under Hopkin but he's hardly Guardiola. He doesn't have a great track record of improving players. If Morton and Ayr offered the same amount and he chose Ayr because of the manager I'd be wondering how big of a p***k McPherson is. I'm presuming he's on a better wage or longer contract.

Hoppy does have a track record of being loyal to players, though. I think that's pretty helpful in terms of his reputation among the players. Maybe they do think Gus is a p***k, but I don't think we should underestimate how much those players respect Hoppy. 

We also shouldn't forget that Morton have been a complete and utter shitshow over the past couple of years, and are a club transitioning in its ownership. I don't blame the players if they think some of the aspects of being at Morton haven't been great, to put it lightly, and are unsure about the future as well. It doesn't necessarily need to be the money on offer. If they like Hoppy and haven't enjoyed aspects of their time at Morton, then I can understand why they'd want to move on. I mean, maybe it is just the money but I think there are other plausible reasons. 

[Jamie_M]

17 hours ago, madton said:

Strange move, sideways rather than stepping up. Presumably it's a better deal for the boy which is fair enough. Expected to see him show up at a bigger club.

Is it really all that strange?

He's just had his breakthrough first full season as a starting player. Some would say it's the smarter choice to not make a big step up and risk going back to either being on the bench or a squad option? Sensible decision to stay at a level with more chance of being first choice for a few seasons.

Ok, he could have got that by staying at Morton. But he's saw how big a basket case we are, the fact we went so long with him as the only keeper, no goalkeeper coach when he's at an important part of his development and then we stuck some impostor in (masquerading as a goalkeeper coach/backup).

Is it any surprise he's signed for the manager that gave him his shot at this level and a goalkeeper coach (who, while a joke figure amongst Morton fans) McAdams has spoken highly of)

[D'Jaffo]

Is it really all that strange?
He's just had his breakthrough first full season as a starting player. Some would say it's the smarter choice to not make a big step up and risk going back to either being on the bench or a squad option? Sensible decision to stay at a level with more chance of being first choice for a few seasons.
Ok, he could have got that by staying at Morton. But he's saw how big a basket case we are, the fact we went so long with him as the only keeper, no goalkeeper coach when he's at an important part of his development and then we stuck some impostor in (masquerading as a goalkeeper coach/backup).
Is it any surprise he's signed for the manager that gave him his shot at this level and a goalkeeper coach (who, while a joke figure amongst Morton fans) McAdams has spoken highly of)

He’ll be in for a shock when he realises that Timmins technically isn’t our goalkeeping coach.

[ayrunitedfw]

34 minutes ago, Jamie_M said:

Is it really all that strange?

He's just had his breakthrough first full season as a starting player. Some would say it's the smarter choice to not make a big step up and risk going back to either being on the bench or a squad option? Sensible decision to stay at a level with more chance of being first choice for a few seasons.

Ok, he could have got that by staying at Morton. But he's saw how big a basket case we are, the fact we went so long with him as the only keeper, no goalkeeper coach when he's at an important part of his development and then we stuck some impostor in (masquerading as a goalkeeper coach/backup).

Is it any surprise he's signed for the manager that gave him his shot at this level and a goalkeeper coach (who, while a joke figure amongst Morton fans) McAdams has spoken highly of)

Out of interest why was he seen as a joke figure amongst your fans? Was it due to him signing Ramsbottom? 

[#Gary]

Mark Russell signs... 

 

Yes, Mark Russell.

No one would've seen that coming...

[Dunning1874]

He was a quality left back before Duffy sabatoged him by moving him to other positions every week. By the sounds of it he has now turned into a creative midfielder over his time at Finn Harps and using him there's the plan rather than being brought back as cover for Strapp, but I'm not sure about bringing players in on the strength of their performances for relegation battling League of Ireland clubs. He'll have to have improved a lot on his previous Championship performances at anywhere other than left back.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

8 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

He was a quality left back before Duffy sabatoged him by moving him to other positions every week. By the sounds of it he has now turned into a creative midfielder over his time at Finn Harps and using him there's the plan rather than being brought back as cover for Strapp, but I'm not sure about bringing players in on the strength of their performances for relegation battling League of Ireland clubs. He'll have to have improved a lot on his previous Championship performances at anywhere other than left back.

If he is someone who can cover Strapp and a couple of midfield spots that is kinda useful for a smaller squad but hardly shouts out the "quality over quantity" approach we were led to believe was coming.