Jump to content
Tri-TON

The Greenock Morton Thread - It's Better Than Yours

Recommended Posts

33 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Equipping the club to be viable is obviously considerably more difficult if we're in League One rather than the Championship, on account of the massive difference in income. This isn't even up for debate, it's an objective fact.

No, it just means matching outgoings to revenue like any other business has to do on an annual basis. By far the largest expense at a football club (as set out in the takeover document) is the first team budget which - oh look! - has been inefficiently squandered on a ridiculously large squad of utter shite and ringers who have never seen the light of day all season - all on 'full-time professional' deals that confer no competitive advantage at all on the park. Players who do nothing other than train and kick a football all week and yet can't stick it in the net when it matters, or trap the ball. 

RpaYRMeapf0X.gif.6862e537e2add589002e47006d6e3f2f.gif

So your smoking gun argument for the benefits of survival in fact sets out another advantage of rebuilding in a lower tier: finally ending our nonsense, bargain bin rummaging status in the full-time market out of necessity and recalibrating to what is actually sustainable and sensible. If Arbroath can both get promoted and sustain a second tier club then a competently-run GMFC absolutely can. And when that is acheived then the club can expand its budget in line with revenue again, which is how a business is supposed to operate.

All of the supposed benefits of the Championship prize money currently go straight into the pockets of the glorified Herbalife salesmen we recruit every summer: none of it actually contributes to the club's growth because we do not turn a profit.

Edited by vikingTON

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, virginton said:

All of the benefits of the Championship prize money go straight into the pockets of the glorified Herbalife salesmen we recruit every summer: none of it contributes to the club's growth. 

We invest significantly into our youth academy which we have found to be successful. Have you managed to provide a pathway for any international players recently? Our most recent ones include Morgan, McGinn and McLean. The transfer and development fees helped balance the books. That is the way forward for all teams in Scotland outside the arse cheeks. Even they are selling clubs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Out of interest is Cameron Salkeld injured or just out of favour?

Seems like he's a decent height, bit of a headless chicken but tries hard which sounds exactly the type of player Hopkin will want for us at Ayr next season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Yflab said:

We invest significantly into our youth academy which we have found to be successful. Have you managed to provide a pathway for any international players recently? Our most recent ones include Morgan, McGinn and McLean. The transfer and development fees helped balance the books. That is the way forward for all teams in Scotland outside the arse cheeks. Even they are selling clubs. 

One of the aims of the new fan ownership model is to provide a viable pathway for home-grown players, but I'm extremely sceptical that this is actually an investment that can pay off at Morton's level. The Project Brave reforms deliberately put the lion's share of external funding into the elite pathway, requiring facilities that simply are not needed/cannot be sustained in Inverclyde or indeed most other areas of the country. 

Focusing on youth development without some sugar daddy to build it up for us promises at best a spot at the second table IMO. I guess a test for this will be what we receive for Lewis Strapp who will almost certainly be off in the event of relegation. I expect a pittance which underlines that youth development is not the ATM that some people think. 

Edited by vikingTON

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, virginton said:

One of the aims of the new fan ownership model is to provide a viable pathway for home-grown players, but I'm extremely sceptical that this is actually an investment that can pay off at Morton's level. The Project Brave reforms deliberately put the lion's share of external funding into the elite pathway, requiring facilities that simply are not needed/cannot be sustained in Inverclyde or indeed most other areas of the country. 

Focusing on youth development without some sugar daddy to build it up for us promises at best a spot at the second table IMO. I guess a test for this will be what we receive for Lewis Strapp who will almost certainly be off in the event of relegation. I expect a pittance which underlines that youth development is not the ATM that some people think. 

I don’t agree with the criteria of Project Brave. Our club did not go down the Elite path initially because of the criteria we had to meet, but I believe that is changing now and we plan on moving onward s and upwards. 
 

Personally I’d far rather see us blood young players from our academy in a competitive league, rather spend hundreds of thousands on foreign journeymen. 
 

We live for the day when we can unearth another Lavety. We seem to produce high calibre midfielders whose surnames all seem to start with M. 

This season we have given debuts to midfielders Dylan Reid and Jay Henderson to complement other midfield academy graduates McAllister, Erhahon, MacPherson. That was after selling our regularly injured club captain Magennis for big bucks to Hibs with a sell on clause. We have just announced a new head of academy to add to the staff.

All this while we fans takeover the club on 27th July. The futures bright as long as we keep the academy going. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

F*ckin hell, I like an away day to Cappielow and I feel for Morton fans going through the shitey times just now... but you really are just a wee fanny.

Aye, you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazing to think that Brechin dropped from the Championship to bottom of Division 2 in just 3 seasons. Can Morton possibly do the same??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, GaryMc93 said:

Out of interest is Cameron Salkeld injured or just out of favour?

Seems like he's a decent height, bit of a headless chicken but tries hard which sounds exactly the type of player Hopkin will want for us at Ayr next season.

Headless chicken, tries hard, abject lack of ability. With Orsi in the squad, we had already more than filled our quota of that. 

I'm not sure of the answer, though, I think he's out of favour but he's maybe just got lost somewhere. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, virginton said:

No, it just means matching outgoings to revenue like any other business has to do on an annual basis. By far the largest expense at a football club (as set out in the takeover document) is the first team budget which - oh look! - has been inefficiently squandered on a ridiculously large squad of utter shite and ringers who have never seen the light of day all season - all on 'full-time professional' deals that confer no competitive advantage at all on the park. Players who do nothing other than train and kick a football all week and yet can't stick it in the net when it matters, or trap the ball. 

RpaYRMeapf0X.gif.6862e537e2add589002e47006d6e3f2f.gif

So your smoking gun argument for the benefits of survival in fact sets out another advantage of rebuilding in a lower tier: finally ending our nonsense, bargain bin rummaging status in the full-time market out of necessity and recalibrating to what is actually sustainable and sensible. If Arbroath can both get promoted and sustain a second tier club then a competently-run GMFC absolutely can. And when that is acheived then the club can expand its budget in line with revenue again, which is how a business is supposed to operate.

All of the supposed benefits of the Championship prize money currently go straight into the pockets of the glorified Herbalife salesmen we recruit every summer: none of it actually contributes to the club's growth because we do not turn a profit.

Right, it is possible that after being relegated in a couple of weeks time we could 1. transition to part-time football, 2. win promotion at some point in the next three/four next seasons, 3. stay up, 4. transition back to full-time possibly via a hybrid setup, then 5. have a crack at being better than we are now a few years into MCT's ownership rather than them scrambling a bargain bin full-time Championship squad together this summer while they're beginning the process of overhauling the club off the park.

While all the above is possible if we get absolutely everything right immediately after over 20 years of being a complete binfire off the park, a far more likely path from relegation and step 1 is 2. Stay down for years showing no sign of a serious promotion challenge leading to 3. The size of the club shrinking through years of reduced revenue and fans walking away. Effectively following Airdrie's managed decline of the last decade, seriously harming our chances of ever being able to consolidate as a second tier club again.

Less likely than the Airdrie route but still more likely than actually leaving us in a better place than staying up is 2. trying to transition to part-time football while trying to restructure the club off the park at the same time turns into a disaster, 3. we make a bad managerial appointment and 4. we find ourselves right in another relegation battle, staring at successive relegations leading to 5. MCT lose credibility among a large portion of the support with some stopping their contributions. The Clyde route.

Yes, we're a bigger club with a bigger support than Clyde or Brechin so should be able to have a more competitive budget and avoid that humiliation, but it's just arrogance to dismiss the possibility entirely.

We hear this 'relegation could be a good thing for the club' rhetoric every time a club is in this position. People thinking it'll be a good thing to go and compete at the top end of a division rather than circling the drain in their current one, and the momentum from going down and winning can be carried into their return to the higher division. It rarely works out that way; see Falkirk fans making that argument in 2010. You're not just making a similar argument that it might be good on the pitch and fans are more likely to be on board as a result, you're arguing that it's somehow easier for a fan takeover to succeed in this scenario when the reality is that it makes it far more likely for the club to become unsustainable and MCT to fail.

The absolute best platform for MCT to hit the ground running and sucfessfully implement their plans for the club is to inherit a Championship club with the revenue that brings.

Edited by Dunning1874

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, GaryMc93 said:

Out of interest is Cameron Salkeld injured or just out of favour?

Seems like he's a decent height, bit of a headless chicken but tries hard which sounds exactly the type of player Hopkin will want for us at Ayr next season.

He came on as a sub in MacPherson's first game in charge and hasn't been seen since. The club don't tell us when players are injured so can't be sure, but I assumed he was just bombed out.

He's the epitome of a David Hopkin player. Tall, lots of energy, will run himself into the ground, you look at him and think he's a bit raw but with those physical attributes there might be a player in there that good coaching can bring out.

After two seasons we can confirm that he's not raw, he just has no ability whatsoever. No amount of coaching is going to make a him a player; he's an athlete, not a footballer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get yourselves relegated, get some young players in, and enjoy winning a few games for a change.

Then get promoted straight away, and enjoy the new sense of hope for about a fortnight. 

Easy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

Headless chicken, tries hard, abject lack of ability. With Orsi in the squad, we had already more than filled our quota of that. 

I'm not sure of the answer, though, I think he's out of favour but he's maybe just got lost somewhere. 

18 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

He came on as a sub in MacPherson's first game in charge and hasn't been seen since. The club don't tell us when players are injured so can't be sure, but I assumed he was just bombed out.

He's the epitome of a David Hopkin player. Tall, lots of energy, will run himself into the ground, you look at him and think he's a bit raw but with those physical attributes there might be a player in there that good coaching can bring out.

After two seasons we can confirm that he's not raw, he just has no ability whatsoever. No amount of coaching is going to make a him a player; he's an athlete, not a footballer.

Cheers so potentially signing a pre contract with a relegation rival might be the answer. 

A quick trawl through Ayr United twitter followers shows a couple of Salkeld's family have followed the club recently. This season I managed to work out 5-6 of our squad before it was announced by checking it so could be the first new signing predicted already.

He's always got a chance with our fanbase considering half hated Chris Aitken but loved Dean Keenan cause he ran about a lot.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

He came on as a sub in MacPherson's first game in charge and hasn't been seen since. The club don't tell us when players are injured so can't be sure, but I assumed he was just bombed out.

He's the epitome of a David Hopkin player. Tall, lots of energy, will run himself into the ground, you look at him and think he's a bit raw but with those physical attributes there might be a player in there that good coaching can bring out.

After two seasons we can confirm that he's not raw, he just has no ability whatsoever. No amount of coaching is going to make a him a player; he's an athlete, not a footballer.

 

16 minutes ago, GaryMc93 said:

Cheers so potentially signing a pre contract with a relegation rival might be the answer. 

A quick trawl through Ayr United twitter followers shows a couple of Salkeld's family have followed the club recently. This season I managed to work out 5-6 of our squad before it was announced by checking it so could be the first new signing predicted already.

He's always got a chance with our fanbase considering half hated Chris Aitken but loved Dean Keenan cause he ran about a lot.   

Just to add to what Dunning says about him being an athlete rather than a player. I have no idea what position is meant to be his strongest. He came as a forward, maybe a winger, who can also play full back or wing back, and he's played in all those roles for us. He has the strength and running to play in all of those roles, but he doesn't have the footballing ability to play in any of them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, GaryMc93 said:

Out of interest is Cameron Salkeld injured or just out of favour?

Seems like he's a decent height, bit of a headless chicken but tries hard which sounds exactly the type of player Hopkin will want for us at Ayr next season.

I’d be disappointed if we re-signed even if we’re relegated, so will be very surprised if he gets a gig in the Championship.

To be fair to him, he’s got a really good attitude and great running power... but he’s also got a first-touch you wouldn’t expect to see even three or four tiers down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

Right, it is possible that after being relegated in a couple of weeks time we could 1. transition to part-time football, 2. win promotion at some point in the next three/four next seasons, 3. stay up, 4. transition back to full-time possibly via a hybrid setup, then 5. have a crack at being better than we are now a few years into MCT's ownership rather than them scrambling a bargain bin full-time Championship squad together this summer while they're beginning the process of overhauling the club off the park.

While all the above is possible if we get absolutely everything right immediately after over 20 years of being a complete binfire off the park, a far more likely path from relegation and step 1 is 2. Stay down for years showing no sign of a serious promotion challenge leading to 3. The size of the club shrinking through years of reduced revenue and fans walking away. Effectively following Airdrie's managed decline of the last decade, seriously harming our chances of ever being able to consolidate as a second tier club again.

Less likely than the Airdrie route but still more likely than actually leaving us in a better place than staying up is 2. trying to transition to part-time football while trying to restructure the club off the park at the same time turns into a disaster, 3. we make a bad managerial appointment and 4. we find ourselves right in another relegation battle, staring at successive relegations leading to 5. MCT lose credibility among a large portion of the support with some stopping their contributions. The Clyde route.

Yes, we're a bigger club with a bigger support than Clyde or Brechin so should be able to have a more competitive budget and avoid that humiliation, but it's just arrogance to dismiss the possibility entirely.

We hear this 'relegation could be a good thing for the club' rhetoric every time a club is in this position. People thinking it'll be a good thing to go and compete at the top end of a division rather than circling the drain in their current one, and the momentum from going down and winning can be carried into their return to the higher division. It rarely works out that way; see Falkirk fans making that argument in 2010. You're not just making a similar argument that it might be good on the pitch and fans are more likely to be on board as a result, you're arguing that it's somehow easier for a fan takeover to succeed in this scenario when the reality is that it makes it far more likely for the club to become unsustainable and MCT to fail.

The absolute best platform for MCT to hit the ground running and sucfessfully implement their plans for the club is to inherit a Championship club with the revenue that brings.

Believe me relegation will NOT be a "good thing" for a club mortons size. L1 is a viciously competitive league. There is a sheet of paper between the full and part time teams. Even forfar who are down have had some crazily good performances. The part time players commitment is unquestionable and your club will be the scalp everyone wants, for the 1st season down anyway. 

Look at the state we were in the first chunk of this season. I believe if there had been no 2nd football lockdown, we would have continued to drift towards the bottom of the table and might have been too far behind after the new year to do anything other than stave off relegation to L2. If a club the size if ours they need to bounce straight back up at first time of asking or run the risk of many years of oblivion. Just ask airdrie, clyde, Falkirk. I wouldn't bet against Falkirk, unless they get their shit together, being in a relegation dog fight next season. Re building has to be from a position of strength and not a continuous downward spiral in L1 and 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, banditjag said:

Believe me relegation will NOT be a "good thing" for a club mortons size. L1 is a viciously competitive league. There is a sheet of paper between the full and part time teams. Even forfar who are down have had some crazily good performances. The part time players commitment is unquestionable and your club will be the scalp everyone wants, for the 1st season down anyway. 

Look at the state we were in the first chunk of this season. I believe if there had been no 2nd football lockdown, we would have continued to drift towards the bottom of the table and might have been too far behind after the new year to do anything other than stave off relegation to L2. If a club the size if ours they need to bounce straight back up at first time of asking or run the risk of many years of oblivion. Just ask airdrie, clyde, Falkirk. I wouldn't bet against Falkirk, unless they get their shit together, being in a relegation dog fight next season. Re building has to be from a position of strength and not a continuous downward spiral in L1 and 2.

I believe you. No, I do.

Most Morton supporters are keechin themselves at the prospect of relegation... while fully expecting it to happen.

Manager and players need to throw everything they’ve got at making sure it doesn’t.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, banditjag said:

Believe me relegation will NOT be a "good thing" for a club mortons size. L1 is a viciously competitive league. There is a sheet of paper between the full and part time teams. Even forfar who are down have had some crazily good performances. The part time players commitment is unquestionable and your club will be the scalp everyone wants, for the 1st season down anyway. 

Look at the state we were in the first chunk of this season. I believe if there had been no 2nd football lockdown, we would have continued to drift towards the bottom of the table and might have been too far behind after the new year to do anything other than stave off relegation to L2. If a club the size if ours they need to bounce straight back up at first time of asking or run the risk of many years of oblivion. Just ask airdrie, clyde, Falkirk. I wouldn't bet against Falkirk, unless they get their shit together, being in a relegation dog fight next season. Re building has to be from a position of strength and not a continuous downward spiral in L1 and 2.

The tiny prize sums and almost uniformly small attendance numbers are a key factor in the evenness of the play in L1/L2. A large attendance club dropping into the league is a welcome bump in gate for all, but despite what you knight think, not a huge advantage to the entering club. Let’s say you pull 1,000 extra every game, that gives you 16 more large gates than the others in the league (18 home games minus your two games there). However, those are most likely to be Season Tickets, so let’s call it an easy £200-£250 per (8/9ths a ST cost), times 1000, that’s a £200,000-250,000. Sounds quite the figure until you compare it to the costs that the club is likely desperately shedding due to the fall.

Now, with the reorganization of Morton occurring at the same time, it is conceivable that it could work in Morton’s favor to drop a league. However, the loss of fan support that would occur is a long-term handicap unless you manage a quick return. After a couple of seasons battering ones head against the promotion wall in League One, it is very hard to keep fans optimism and belief.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

I believe you. No, I do.

Most Morton supporters are keechin themselves at the prospect of relegation... while fully expecting it to happen.

Manager and players need to throw everything they’ve got at making sure it doesn’t.

Don’t worry, if it happens a spot of MEDICINE will helpmedicine GIF

Edited by Sting777

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

Right, it is possible that after being relegated in a couple of weeks time we could 1. transition to part-time football, 2. win promotion at some point in the next three/four next seasons, 3. stay up, 4. transition back to full-time possibly via a hybrid setup, then 5. have a crack at being better than we are now a few years into MCT's ownership rather than them scrambling a bargain bin full-time Championship squad together this summer while they're beginning the process of overhauling the club off the park.

While all the above is possible if we get absolutely everything right immediately after over 20 years of being a complete binfire off the park, a far more likely path from relegation and step 1 is 2. Stay down for years showing no sign of a serious promotion challenge leading to 3. The size of the club shrinking through years of reduced revenue and fans walking away. Effectively following Airdrie's managed decline of the last decade, seriously harming our chances of ever being able to consolidate as a second tier club again.

Drivel. The onus is on the fans as the future custodians of the club to invest in it rather than throwing their dummy tit out because we're not winning a league title. If you do not believe that this is possible then our new ownership model is a busted flush and we've got far bigger issues to face than worrying about which league we'll be playing in.

Quote

Less likely than the Airdrie route but still more likely than actually leaving us in a better place than staying up is 2. trying to transition to part-time football while trying to restructure the club off the park at the same time turns into a disaster, 3. we make a bad managerial appointment and 4. we find ourselves right in another relegation battle, staring at successive relegations leading to 5. MCT lose credibility among a large portion of the support with some stopping their contributions. The Clyde route.

The most likely route to the above outcome is by 'surviving' in a division that we are fundamentally not equipped to be fully competitive in, and then for MCT to take the flak for yet another dire relegation campaign rather than the discredited Rae regime.

The best way to protect the credibility of the new ownership then is for the punishment for twenty years of accumulated dysfunction and failure to be inflicted on the current incumbents as their final legacy to daddy on their way out, never to darken the door of Cappielow again. A clean break is required and there is no cleaner break in competitive league sport than relegation.

Quote

Yes, we're a bigger club with a bigger support than Clyde or Brechin so should be able to have a more competitive budget and avoid that humiliation, but it's just arrogance to dismiss the possibility entirely.

No, it is shrill attention-seeking nonsense to compare our situation to Clyde - no assets; tenants to the council etc. - when it does not even remotely reflect the reality of this club. 

Quote

We hear this 'relegation could be a good thing for the club' rhetoric every time a club is in this position. People thinking it'll be a good thing to go and compete at the top end of a division rather than circling the drain in their current one, and the momentum from going down and winning can be carried into their return to the higher division. It rarely works out that way; see Falkirk fans making that argument in 2010. You're not just making a similar argument that it might be good on the pitch and fans are more likely to be on board as a result, you're arguing that it's somehow easier for a fan takeover to succeed in this scenario when

No, once again you are creating a straw man about 'a challenge at the top'. Show me where this has been stated as an advantage of relegation in this case. 

Relegation serves a natural purpose in forcing clubs to rethink their failed strategy and many if not most clubs return stronger for it. If they cannot do so then they don't deserve to be at a higher level. That's competitive sport. 

Quote

the reality is that it makes it far more likely for the club to become unsustainable and MCT to fail.

Once again, utter nonsense. The MCT proposal confirms that the overwhelming cost of running the football club are first team costs, which are inherently adjustable to income. It is not the third and fourth tier clubs who lose money hand over fist and go into administration in Scottish football: it is second tier outfits who think that they have a divine right to play at a higher level and so pay wages they cannot afford. 

There is absolutely zero threat to the sustainability of the club from lower tier football then. The threat is having an ownership model that foolishly refuses to adjust to financial reality, such as the failed Rae regime. 

Quote

The absolute best platform for MCT to hit the ground running and sucfessfully implement their plans for the club is to inherit a Championship club with the revenue that brings.

Except that they quite clearly can't 'hit the ground running', given that our Championship league status cannot be secured before an as yet undetermined date. Thanks for playing anyway then.

Edited by vikingTON

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...