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The Greenock Morton Thread - It's Better Than Yours

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18 minutes ago, HopeStreetPieStall said:

In Dunfermline terms? Rusty and full of pigeon shite. 

And leaking.

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The same Falkirk fans, who can barely keep a dry eye when they think of Brockville, having a go at another club's stadium is quite the brass neck considering their current generic Legoland stadium in Grangemouth required a hot tub on a chain to give it any character.

 

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Only on PnB could a Morton thread turn into a slagging match between Dunfermline and Falkirk fans.

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The same Falkirk fans, who can barely keep a dry eye when they think of Brockville, having a go at another club's stadium is quite the brass neck considering their current generic Legoland stadium in Grangemouth required a hot tub on a chain to give it any character.

 
The hot tub wasn't on a chain. You've merged 2 gimmicks there. Mon tae f**k.

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On 03/12/2018 at 11:28, Colkitto said:

When you watch Morton this season you get the feeling they still haven't fully gelled yet as a team. JJ has played almost the same group of players with the same formation so it's not as if it's down to constantly changing things around. Yet they play as if they're strangers to each other at times and sometimes it all fits in to place - really weird.

JJ appointment was always a gamble. But one I agreed with at the time. For me, his tenure at the club will depend on where we finish this season and that will be down to what players he can bring in at the transfer window.

The Jekyll & Hyde performances are ruining our season. We have absolutely no consistency with this group of players. JJ and Houston must surely know what's required and act accordingly.  

 

 

See, in his first few games he was entirely willing to chop and change the formation, we were cycling through 4-4-2, 4-1-4-1 and 4-3-3/4-5-1 from week to week. Despite meaning an unsettled team I initially thought you could view it as an encouraging sign - it suggested a willingness to adapt as he learned about the squad and try to deal with their weaknesses. So after we conceded five for a second time after only six games in charge, he switched to the 5-3-2/3-5-2 to try to shore up the defence, and it worked with two consecutive wins.

Now that we've had that formation for a few games and teams are aware that we're going to play it, it's only confirming suspicions that he stumbled on the formation by accident and when he comes up against a manager who sets up specifically to exploit or counteract it he doesn't have a clue what to do. Goodwin absolutely schooled him by outnumbering us in midfield in a 2-0 defeat where the scoreline flattered us and his substitutions only made it worse, Dunfermline tore the defence apart, even Jim fucking McInally got the better of him for 45 minutes. There's no sign of how he wants the team to play coming through in their performances and there's little sign of him changing things for the better during games.

While he's clearly capable of insightful analysis of what problems we have, there's no indication that he knows how to fix it, or at least to get that message through to the players. His willingness to change formations masked it because he didn't have a dogmatic attachment to, but it's looking increasingly like he's just James Grady without the refusal to deviate from 4-4-2. He's sending the team out with a formation but no gameplan, or at least if he has one the players don't understand it and show no signs of carrying his instructions out, whatever they are. What style of football are we actually supposed to be playing, how are we adapting our performances based on the opposition?

Obviously he's only 13 games in and maybe this is all part of him having to learn on the job having taken over during the season, none of it means he's going to be a terrible manager in the long term and while his results aren't acceptable so far they're good enough to say that he's not a Tommy Craig or Willie McStay level dud, but there's also no indication that he's actually a manager so far. If he's capable of making that improvement as he learns we really need it to happen soon though, we can't wait months for him to get better. We need results in the next four games to keep a comfortable distance from the bottom two; another comfortable defeat on Saturday followed by losing at Falkirk would have things looking bleak.

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55 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

See, in his first few games he was entirely willing to chop and change the formation, we were cycling through 4-4-2, 4-1-4-1 and 4-3-3/4-5-1 from week to week. Despite meaning an unsettled team I initially thought you could view it as an encouraging sign - it suggested a willingness to adapt as he learned about the squad and try to deal with their weaknesses. So after we conceded five for a second time after only six games in charge, he switched to the 5-3-2/3-5-2 to try to shore up the defence, and it worked with two consecutive wins.

Now that we've had that formation for a few games and teams are aware that we're going to play it, it's only confirming suspicions that he stumbled on the formation by accident and when he comes up against a manager who sets up specifically to exploit or counteract it he doesn't have a clue what to do. Goodwin absolutely schooled him by outnumbering us in midfield in a 2-0 defeat where the scoreline flattered us and his substitutions only made it worse, Dunfermline tore the defence apart, even Jim fucking McInally got the better of him for 45 minutes. There's no sign of how he wants the team to play coming through in their performances and there's little sign of him changing things for the better during games.

While he's clearly capable of insightful analysis of what problems we have, there's no indication that he knows how to fix it, or at least to get that message through to the players. His willingness to change formations masked it because he didn't have a dogmatic attachment to, but it's looking increasingly like he's just James Grady without the refusal to deviate from 4-4-2. He's sending the team out with a formation but no gameplan, or at least if he has one the players don't understand it and show no signs of carrying his instructions out, whatever they are. What style of football are we actually supposed to be playing, how are we adapting our performances based on the opposition?

Obviously he's only 13 games in and maybe this is all part of him having to learn on the job having taken over during the season, none of it means he's going to be a terrible manager in the long term and while his results aren't acceptable so far they're good enough to say that he's not a Tommy Craig or Willie McStay level dud, but there's also no indication that he's actually a manager so far. If he's capable of making that improvement as he learns we really need it to happen soon though, we can't wait months for him to get better. We need results in the next four games to keep a comfortable distance from the bottom two; another comfortable defeat on Saturday followed by losing at Falkirk would have things looking bleak.

He has stated in many an interview that his first priority was to make us hard to beat.  After couple of heavy drubbings he packed the defence in move to keep things tight and hasn't really changed it from there on in.

We now really only play the one formation regardless of who we are playing. The Alloa game showed he will not change, even in a game like that when it was crying out for change.

I think one of the big things he's said and many people have not really picked up on it was when he said he couldn't trust some players. That's quite a thing to say!

We obviously have problems within the squad or he simply just doesn't rate some of them. Houston has made similar comments of "we didn't sign those players" or words to that effect.

It's hard to judge a manager when it's not his squad and he's working with players he doesn't rate or sign.

Like most supporters I'll judge him after the transfer window in January, albeit I'm getting very frustrated with the performances  

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11 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

See, in his first few games he was entirely willing to chop and change the formation, we were cycling through 4-4-2, 4-1-4-1 and 4-3-3/4-5-1 from week to week. Despite meaning an unsettled team I initially thought you could view it as an encouraging sign - it suggested a willingness to adapt as he learned about the squad and try to deal with their weaknesses. So after we conceded five for a second time after only six games in charge, he switched to the 5-3-2/3-5-2 to try to shore up the defence, and it worked with two consecutive wins.

Now that we've had that formation for a few games and teams are aware that we're going to play it, it's only confirming suspicions that he stumbled on the formation by accident and when he comes up against a manager who sets up specifically to exploit or counteract it he doesn't have a clue what to do. Goodwin absolutely schooled him by outnumbering us in midfield in a 2-0 defeat where the scoreline flattered us and his substitutions only made it worse, Dunfermline tore the defence apart, even Jim fucking McInally got the better of him for 45 minutes. There's no sign of how he wants the team to play coming through in their performances and there's little sign of him changing things for the better during games.

While he's clearly capable of insightful analysis of what problems we have, there's no indication that he knows how to fix it, or at least to get that message through to the players. His willingness to change formations masked it because he didn't have a dogmatic attachment to, but it's looking increasingly like he's just James Grady without the refusal to deviate from 4-4-2. He's sending the team out with a formation but no gameplan, or at least if he has one the players don't understand it and show no signs of carrying his instructions out, whatever they are. What style of football are we actually supposed to be playing, how are we adapting our performances based on the opposition?

Obviously he's only 13 games in and maybe this is all part of him having to learn on the job having taken over during the season, none of it means he's going to be a terrible manager in the long term and while his results aren't acceptable so far they're good enough to say that he's not a Tommy Craig or Willie McStay level dud, but there's also no indication that he's actually a manager so far. If he's capable of making that improvement as he learns we really need it to happen soon though, we can't wait months for him to get better. We need results in the next four games to keep a comfortable distance from the bottom two; another comfortable defeat on Saturday followed by losing at Falkirk would have things looking bleak.

I agree with a lot of that, but I think you're skirting round the main issue: Johansson clearly wanted to play 4-4-2 when he came in, quickly realised we don't have the players to do that effectively, and arrived at the 3-5-2 as the only way to get two up with this squad, give Tidser the support he needs in the middle, and protect shaky full-backs and centre-halves. You're right that he doesn't currently know what else to do, but I genuinely think that's more about the players available than him. You're also right that decent managers will clock exactly what we're going to do, so we'll only get straightforward wins when cocks like Caldwell hand them to us... but again, there are very few options available until he can change some of the personnel.

The Grady comparison is harsh: sure, there's no concrete evidence that there's definitely a manager in there... but folk already saying there's definitely _not_ are jumping the gun.

9 hours ago, Colkitto said:

He has stated in many an interview that his first priority was to make us hard to beat.  After couple of heavy drubbings he packed the defence in move to keep things tight and hasn't really changed it from there on in.

We now really only play the one formation regardless of who we are playing. The Alloa game showed he will not change, even in a game like that when it was crying out for change.

I think one of the big things he's said and many people have not really picked up on it was when he said he couldn't trust some players. That's quite a thing to say!

We obviously have problems within the squad or he simply just doesn't rate some of them. Houston has made similar comments of "we didn't sign those players" or words to that effect.

It's hard to judge a manager when it's not his squad and he's working with players he doesn't rate or sign.

Like most supporters I'll judge him after the transfer window in January, albeit I'm getting very frustrated with the performances  

Again, agree: his interview after Dunfermline was as clear as Mourinho was earlier tonight... doesn't rate or trust a number of the players he inherited (although, in Mourinho's case, also some he signed himself).

If he gets to shuffle two or three in January and the players he brings in are no better than what we've got and/or don't help him solve the problem with shape, meaning we're still wildly inconsistent (or worse) through February and into March... then we can make a judgment about whether we've got a manager or not.

Between now and then the only real tests are a. can we continue finding a performance immediately after a shocker; and b. can he get a team out to spank McArsehole's 'rejuvenated' Fa'kirk... these are also things managers are made of.

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On 12/5/2018 at 16:55, Colkitto said:

Like most supporters I'll judge him after the transfer window in January, albeit I'm getting very frustrated with the performances  

He's getting judged now in every single game. If you think that he's somehow got a free pass until February then you've not been paying attention. 

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Just checking from the top of the Premiership to see how shitey wee Morten are doing.

Still shite I see.

What a shitey wee club you all support.

IMG_0293.jpg

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2 hours ago, virginton said:

He's getting judged now in every single game. If you think that he's somehow got a free pass until February then you've not been paying attention. 

He's not getting a free pass. I've already criticized him for failing to change tactics when it mattered in games.

Judgement is reserved on whether I think he'll make it or not once I see what/if changes are made to the squad come January

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2 hours ago, Dindeleux said:

Just checking from the top of the Premiership to see how shitey wee Morten are doing.

Still shite I see.

What a shitey wee club you all support.

IMG_0293.jpg

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Big team found..

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3 hours ago, Dindeleux said:

Just checking from the top of the Premiership to see how shitey wee Morten are doing.

Still shite I see.

What a shitey wee club you all support.

IMG_0293.jpg

I admire your obsession with us :lol: 

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11 hours ago, Colkitto said:

He's not getting a free pass. I've already criticized him for failing to change tactics when it mattered in games.

Judgement is reserved on whether I think he'll make it or not once I see what/if changes are made to the squad come January

Good for you; most supporters are already casting judgment on his ability now though. Because regular insipid shoeings are a telling feature of whether a manager is any good or not. 

He will come under serious pressure from the terraces unless results significantly improve before the window opens.

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30 minutes ago, virginton said:

He will come under serious pressure from the terraces unless results significantly improve before the window opens.

I don’t think he will. He’ll come under pressure if the current pattern — terrible result usually followed by a decent performance — slips into one terrible result after another... and/or we get embarrassed at Grangemouth.

Otherwise, even though we are obviously ‘judging’ him, he’ll get the chance to tweak it in January. Only then — and this is the main point — will we have a secure sense of what we’ve actually appointed and where he might take us.

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We have two difficult home matches and two absolutely must-win away matches this month. If the team registers as poor results in them as in the past four matches then the atmosphere is going to be absolutely poisonous. Three points or some other shan total for this month will make up a lot of minds - Falkirk and Partick away have potential shame games written all over them. 

There needs to be an improvement now or his credibility will be largely spent by the New Year. 

Quote

 Only then — and this is the main point — will we have a secure sense of what we’ve actually appointed and where he might take us.

This is wishful thinking. Or 'bollocks', to put it more frankly. We already know that we do not have a manager capable of organising a team to be more than the sum of its parts. There is no  coherent game plan or style of play that JJ favours; if he has one then he is already failing to communicate it to the players. 

It's understandable that people want to give a new man every possible chance that they can, but the transfer window is now being built up into an all-important turning point without any real grounds for it. Not least because the manager will have limited room to ship players out and bring in replacements in January anyway. It is simply clutching at straws to hope that we have an unearthed a genius in the transfer market who will turn things round based only on that. Unless the management team can improve their handling of the team in training and on match-day then January is not going to be the judgment point for their tenure. 

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4 hours ago, virginton said:

We have two difficult home matches and two absolutely must-win away matches this month. If the team registers as poor results in them as in the past four matches then the atmosphere is going to be absolutely poisonous. Three points or some other shan total for this month will make up a lot of minds - Falkirk and Partick away have potential shame games written all over them. 

There needs to be an improvement now or his credibility will be largely spent by the New Year. 

This is wishful thinking. Or 'bollocks', to put it more frankly. We already know that we do not have a manager capable of organising a team to be more than the sum of its parts. There is no  coherent game plan or style of play that JJ favours; if he has one then he is already failing to communicate it to the players. 

It's understandable that people want to give a new man every possible chance that they can, but the transfer window is now being built up into an all-important turning point without any real grounds for it. Not least because the manager will have limited room to ship players out and bring in replacements in January anyway. It is simply clutching at straws to hope that we have an unearthed a genius in the transfer market who will turn things round based only on that. Unless the management team can improve their handling of the team in training and on match-day then January is not going to be the judgment point for their tenure. 

Might well be slightly wishful, but to say it’s bollocks is, well, bollocks. You might think you ‘know’ what we’ve got, I don’t.

The set-up Johansson favours is, I think, 4-4-2; he’s accepted he can’t do that with the players we’ve got.

Your suggestion that the January window isn’t important for a rookie manager who’s inherited players he didn’t sign.... that really is bollocks, as is the stuff about ‘unearthed genius’ (who exactly is saying that?). What he is is a guy who has coached the Finnish national team and Rangers*; if having operated at that level doesn’t help him make one or two signings that the likes of Duffy couldn’t make, I will begin to feel we’ve been conned.

I’ve said above that Grangemouth away is important for him due to the circumstances, but not getting beat there (at the very least) and the current week about routine with performances/results will be more than enough to see us (and him) to the window.

We might very well learn more between then and now, but January/February will, whether you like it or not, be the decisive point.

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Quote

Your suggestion that the January window isn’t important for a rookie manager who’s inherited players he didn’t sign.... that really is bollocks,

I'm not saying that it isn't important for him - I'm saying that happy-clappers have massively overrated the effect that this window will have - particularly  given JJ will have very little room for manoeuvre anyway. Even if he at best unearths a single absolute gem, that would still contribute little without having a credible tactical setup to build around him .  We're not Gretna in the Second Division here -  even if the manager was absolutely superb in the transfer market we could never coast to our targets based on that alone. 

Quote

What he is is a guy who has coached the Finnish national team and Rangers*; if having operated at that level doesn’t help him make one or two signings that the likes of Duffy couldn’t make, I will begin to feel we’ve been conned.

The same Finnish national team and a Sevco oufit who have been managed at a more senior level by Mixu Paatelainen and Ally McCoist respectively. Given that I wouldn't let either of them near the Morton dugout, I'm not convinced that coaches from the same teams should be dealt with in such hushed tones, But again, none of this really matters: JJ can't overhaul the squad he has in January anyway. He must make the best of what he's got and make some upgrades if he turns out to better than an average manager in the transfer market. If he can't do that then he's finished - the parade of heavy defeats has cut short the time that he'd reasonably expect to have to build his own team. That's football. 

Quote

I’ve said above that Grangemouth away is important for him due to the circumstances, but not getting beat there (at the very least) and the current week about routine with performances/results will be more than enough to see us (and him) to the window.

While I am convinced that they are utter dung and should be getting roundly sworded by any barely competent Morton side, it's hardly outrageous to envisage a rancid, insipid defeat there - JJ has all too many of those under his belt already.  And that would be utterly fatal to the manager's credibility; the same applies to Partick at the end of the month.  

Seven points or better from this month is a realistic goal that would put us back on the right track; we could just as easily get three points or less though, which will turn the atmosphere into utter poison. Which is where your 'he'll only be judged in January' claim turns out to be utter bollocks btw.  Once again, I want JJ to show his worth and prove that he was a sound choice as a manager - but that requires him and that invisible man Houston pulling their fingers out of their arse now and stopping the rot. The acid tests for their tenure are going to happen before they get a chance to change the squad; so it's about time that they started focusing on what they've got instead of making crap excuses for failure 

Edited by vikingTON

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On 06/12/2018 at 18:30, Dindeleux said:

Just checking from the top of the Premiership to see how shitey wee Morten are doing.

Still shite I see.

What a shitey wee club you all support.

IMG_0293.jpg

Hmmm.......  You seem to be quite a strange wee person.

Outside of the two sets of polarised fannies and some AyrUnited fans I think most observers of Scottish fitba’ will be reasonably happy to see any team other than the two erse cheeks at the top of the league, even though we all realise it’ll only be for a short while. Probably till Cellic play their games in hand, maybe sooner. Fair enuff, that’s the way the world is.

But here we have you, apparently feeling superior to a group of people that you don’t know and never will, because a bunch of footballers that you don’t know and never will are better than a bunch of footballers that they don’t know and never will. And being stupid enough to publicise that fact.

Now, all clubs have a proportion of tiny-minded posters who share those traits, including us. I doubt, though, that very many of them would bother too much about trying to get a rise out of supporters of a club that they have no rivalry with, a club that means nothing to them other than a collective shrug of the shoulders and a club that is not even playing in the same division.

And if any of them do, then they are as sad as you are. If this is the way you choose to enjoy your moment, for a moment is sadly all that it will be, then you really should take a look at yourself, shut up and make the most of it, for nobody else cares.

 

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