The Greenock Morton Thread - It's Better Than Yours

[TheGoon]

4 hours ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

Soon as I saw the Club's announcement about Blues I nipped out for some popcorn, and sure enough some of the usual suspects haven't disappointed. 

All it needs now is for Muirhead to sign a two year deal and McGinty to come back 'Broadfoot' style and Dunning will spontaneously combust. 

It's great, this, keeping us all entertained till the Euros kick off. 

 

 

Edited to add - it took Methadone Mick precisely two minutes to sneak in with his customary wee rid dot.  Must be close to a record, even for him. 

Thank you, Virginton, from the heart of my bottom.

[cappiecat]

2 hours ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

Bump yer gums on here as much as you want, pontificate about everything from the quality of player being signed or whether they should change the club badge or even what should be on sale at the pie stalls...

Imagine the temerity of football fans discussing such topics on a football fans forum, it beggars belief!

Edited June 6, 2021 by cappiecat
.

[Branch Ton]

8 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

If posting lyrics to a song  I like on a signature on a football forum makes me a pompous and self righteous p***k I dare say your standards of what constitutes being pompous and self righteous are pretty low.

If you think wanting to hear any sort of remorse or acceptance from a player for heinous sex crimes committed before accepting my club's decision to employ them without complaint is pompous or self righteous then, once again, those standards are pretty low

Methinks that verse 2 pretty much epitomises how you see yourself and the others you come up against on this forum.

Interesting you take it for granted that the club hasn’t gone through the DBS process or discussed behaviours as part of the negotiations. But then you seem pretty much an every one but me  is shit at everything kind of guy.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

2 minutes ago, Branch Ton said:

Interesting you take it for granted that the club hasn’t gone through the DBS process or discussed behaviours as part of the negotiations. But then you seem pretty much an every one but me  is shit at everything kind of guy.

Interesting you make ridiculous presumptions and gleam them as fact. I know for a fact Morton must have went through the DBS process as they fucking have to. I don't know if they discussed previous behaviour but would be very surprised, and worried, if they had not. 

The only thing I can say for certain is your reading comprehension is terrible and you jump to assumptions.

[Rudolph Hucker]

7 hours ago, cappiecat said:

Imagine the temerity of football fans discussing such topics on a football fans forum, it beggars belief!

No, not in the least. That’s what these things are for, after all.

As for some of the nonsense talked and the entrenched, immovable opinions expressed, though - THAT’S what beggars belief.

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

8 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

No. Unsurprisingly from you that's all wrong.

It's not just a football interview is it? He discusses doing 'a bad thing'. He's not referring to signing for Clyde there is he? He is touching on his crimes of a sexual nature carried directly out on vulnerable women in trapped environments. 

You are right that what is printed barely touches on the crimes (would ruin the little puff piece if the journalist asked him if he knew what age the children that were present when he exposed himself were) but that's on the Record. Not Lithgow. What is on Lithgow is his silence.

But due to the entire lack of any other discussion or mention of his crimes from.him anywhere else we have very litle to go on. If Lithgow had came out and spoke of remorse I would give him the benefit of the doubt. He hasn't. 

If the club had came out and made mention of past crimes and proclaimed remorse and rehabilitation on his behalf I would even be inclined to accept it.

But neither has happened. 

Honestly, where to start with this…….

Right. Let’s take it from the top:

It’s a two year old piece, from the Daily Record SPORTS section. It isn’t a piece intended to examine a crime that was old news (a DECADE old) even then. It’s not there to look at crime, punishment and rehabilitation. It’s there to discuss a career in football that was affected by unusual circumstances, so it touches briefly on the causes of that and moves on to discuss the effects. The journalist is writing about what his readership is most likely to be interested in. It’s not intended to be a part of the player’s future CV.
 

As for “trapped environments “  - what?? He was enclosed in a car, the victims were on open streets. What ages were the children? They were in prams, apparently . Why would the writer need to know more? It was no doubt documented elsewhere and it’s irrelevant to his piece. To me, it would have been quite a creepy question to ask, as well as irrelevant to the interview.

 

Was Lithgow ‘silent’ about what he did? We can’t know that, we were not present at the interview. You say that “due to the entire lack of any other discussion or mention of his crimes from.him anywhere else we have very litle to go on” - really?  Without having been overly interested  I can remember him talking about it after the trial and on more than one occasion since. Thus, no need or reason for chapter and verse to be brought up every time he’s interviewed. Especially in what IS primarily a football piece.

 

You admit in a later post that Morton will have done their due diligence before signing the player. That’s what they have to do. They also seem to have decided, rightly in my view, to say nothing with regard to they player’s past, so far at least. Every criminal is entitled to rehabilitation, no matter what the crime, no matter whether you or I like it or not.

 

Your position on this is obviously entrenched, nothing that I or anyone else says is going to change it. Fine, but it’s only right that slanted and biased views are challenged objectively. Now that I’ve  done so, you’ll be glad to hear that I don’t  see me wasting any more time on this topic. Alan Lithgow is big enough and old enough to defend himself should he choose to do so, but I’d imagine he may opt for as dignified a silence as his situation allows.

 

 

[madton]

12 minutes ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

Honestly, where to start with this…….

Right. Let’s take it from the top:

It’s a two year old piece, from the Daily Record SPORTS section. It isn’t a piece intended to examine a crime that was old news (a DECADE old) even then. It’s not there to look at crime, punishment and rehabilitation. It’s there to discuss a career in football that was affected by unusual circumstances, so it touches briefly on the causes of that and moves on to discuss the effects. The journalist is writing about what his readership is most likely to be interested in. It’s not intended to be a part of the player’s future CV.
 

As for “trapped environments “  - what?? He was enclosed in a car, the victims were on open streets. What ages were the children? They were in prams, apparently . Why would the writer need to know more? It was no doubt documented elsewhere and it’s irrelevant to his piece. To me, it would have been quite a creepy question to ask, as well as irrelevant to the interview.

 

Was Lithgow ‘silent’ about what he did? We can’t know that, we were not present at the interview. You say that “due to the entire lack of any other discussion or mention of his crimes from.him anywhere else we have very litle to go on” - really?  Without having been overly interested  I can remember him talking about it after the trial and on more than one occasion since. Thus, no need or reason for chapter and verse to be brought up every time he’s interviewed. Especially in what IS primarily a football piece.

 

You admit in a later post that Morton will have done their due diligence before signing the player. That’s what they have to do. They also seem to have decided, rightly in my view, to say nothing with regard to they player’s past, so far at least. Every criminal is entitled to rehabilitation, no matter what the crime, no matter whether you or I like it or not.

 

Your position on this is obviously entrenched, nothing that I or anyone else says is going to change it. Fine, but it’s only right that slanted and biased views are challenged objectively. Now that I’ve  done so, you’ll be glad to hear that I don’t  see me wasting any more time on this topic. Alan Lithgow is big enough and old enough to defend himself should he choose to do so, but I’d imagine he may opt for as dignified a silence as his situation allows.

 

 

Bang on.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

1 minute ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

It’s a two year old piece, from the Daily Record SPORTS section. It isn’t a piece intended to examine a crime that was old news (a DECADE old) even then. It’s not there to look at crime, punishment and rehabilitation. It’s there to discuss a career in football that was affected by unusual circumstances, so it touches briefly on the causes of that and moves on to discuss the effects. The journalist is writing about what his readership is most likely to be interested in. It’s not intended to be a part of the player’s future CV.

And I have never said it is. What I have said, and what is a demonstrable fact, is we have absolutely no other evidence from the player regarding his own viewpoint on these crimes. If you go back and check I brought it up because I was specifically asked to. It is, as far as I am aware, the only place we can reference anything approaching remorse from Lithgow. If there are other interviews or examples elsewhere feel free to provide them but, so far, the only time Lithgow has commented publicly he has not shown a single piece of remorse for the victims of his crimes (unknown editorial choices not withstanding)

1 minute ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

As for “trapped environments “  - what?? He was enclosed in a car, the victims were on open streets. What ages were the children? They were in prams, apparently . Why would the writer need to know more? It was no doubt documented elsewhere and it’s irrelevant to his piece. To me, it would have been quite a creepy question to ask, as well as irrelevant to the interview.

I didn't realise there was a lower age limit for getting yer walloper out in front of children. And, because of those prams, two of those women were in trapped environments. I don't know (and neither do you) the exact circumstances of the other women he stalked down to expose himself to but being lumbered with a pram is a trapped environment. It hinders any possible escape for the victim unless they're keen on leaving their child behind.  The writer doesn't need to know more, obviously, but if you're going to take a clearly rhetorical question to make a point and pretend it's a serious question then there's no hope for you. 

1 minute ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

Was Lithgow ‘silent’ about what he did? We can’t know that, we were not present at the interview. You say that “due to the entire lack of any other discussion or mention of his crimes from.him anywhere else we have very litle to go on” - really?  Without having been overly interested  I can remember him talking about it after the trial and on more than one occasion since. Thus, no need or reason for chapter and verse to be brought up every time he’s interviewed. Especially in what IS primarily a football piece.

Maybe he wasn't silent in that interview but he is silent now and, as far as I can see, always has been since the trial. If I am wrong feel free to correct me. I am not saying it needs to be brought up every time he's interviewed (although seeing at how quickly sex offenders are allowed to escape their previous crimes I wouldn't be against it). You're sounding like Branch Ton and extrapolating for no reason. I am not saying it needs to brought up every time he's interviewed or that he has to mention it every Sunday at midday. There is, however, silence from both him and the club. Both parties are aware of the ill-feeling his presence had when he was on trial last so both would be aware it exists. Their silence is clearly intentional at this point in the hope fans would have forgotten or forgiven those crimes. He has access to social media, the club has the same. Either one could have addressed this issue and let us fans know his remorse. 

1 minute ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

You admit in a later post that Morton will have done their due diligence before signing the player. That’s what they have to do. They also seem to have decided, rightly in my view, to say nothing with regard to they player’s past, so far at least. Every criminal is entitled to rehabilitation, no matter what the crime, no matter whether you or I like it or not.

I agree, entirely, that every criminal is entitled to rehabilitation. This includes Lithgow and I, genuinely, hope he feels a deep remorse and shame for his actions and has spent the rest of his adult life looking for ways to make amends for them. If he, or the club, had gave us the slightest indication that this was the case I would have no issue with his signing. The club and player both knowing how fans felt about his past and then passing off his signing without comment is cowardly. 

1 minute ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

Your position on this is obviously entrenched, nothing that I or anyone else says is going to change it. Fine, but it’s only right that slanted and biased views are challenged objectively. Now that I’ve  done so, you’ll be glad to hear that I don’t  see me wasting any more time on this topic. Alan Lithgow is big enough and old enough to defend himself should he choose to do so, but I’d imagine he may opt for as dignified a silence as his situation allows.

It is entrenched. It's a fairly simple position. If Morton are going to sign players who have committed crimes of a sexual nature against vulnerable women they should have the common decency to address the concerns of the fans beforehand. There is nothing slanted or biased about it. I'm made the case that his public declarations about the crimes show no hint of remorse and seek to paint himself as the victim. You have argued, rightly, that he has no control over the editorial control over the only interview we have access to, but we can't presume that he was grovelling for forgiveness and the subeditor ditched it. We have to take all the evidence we have at face value and, in that interview, it's all about him without a moment's pause for the victims. If Lithgow is big enough and old enough to defend himself he's also big enough and old enough to understand other people's distaste for his actions and do what he can to show us that he shows remorse for them.

I also highly doubt this is the last you will be wasting your time on this topic because it's impossible for you to not get the last word in 

[SpoonTon]

15 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

And I have never said it is. What I have said, and what is a demonstrable fact, is we have absolutely no other evidence from the player regarding his own viewpoint on these crimes. If you go back and check I brought it up because I was specifically asked to. It is, as far as I am aware, the only place we can reference anything approaching remorse from Lithgow. If there are other interviews or examples elsewhere feel free to provide them but, so far, the only time Lithgow has commented publicly he has not shown a single piece of remorse for the victims of his crimes (unknown editorial choices not withstanding)

 

I don't know if this has already been pointed out on here, I don't want to read through everything, but it's very easy to find that he did apologise at the time (whatever you want to make of that).

"I am very sorry for the upset and distress caused through my actions and I wholeheartedly accept the judgement of the court. I can assure everyone that this will not happen again."

 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

2 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

I don't know if this has already been pointed out on here, I don't want to read through everything, but it's very easy to find that he did apologise at the time (whatever you want to make of that).

"I am very sorry for the upset and distress caused through my actions and I wholeheartedly accept the judgement of the court. I can assure everyone that this will not happen again."

 

I admit that I do take a pre-written statement read out in court that helped avoid a custodial sentence with a pinch of salt. If I had been caught committing multiple sex crimes and got away with community service I would wholeheartedly accept the court's judgement as well. 

But the point remains, when he was last on trial with ourselves and chased out, it was after he had read out those two sentences. Nothing's changed between then and now. The club and player are aware of the depth of feeling his presence caused last time and their refusal to acknowledge it is cowardly

[Branch Ton]

1 hour ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Interesting you make ridiculous presumptions and gleam them as fact. I know for a fact Morton must have went through the DBS process as they fucking have to. I don't know if they discussed previous behaviour but would be very surprised, and worried, if they had not. 

The only thing I can say for certain is your reading comprehension is terrible and you jump to assumptions.

This reads more like a soliloquy than a reply.

 

[#Gary]

Muirhead signs for another year.

Any buzz I had about being able to return to games for next season has just gone.

[Rudolph Hucker]

Oops. Should've asked - is laughing in advance of expected reactions allowable on here? 

A word of advice for all concerned - change what you cannot accept, but accept what you cannot change. 

 

Too early in the day for popcorn?  There'll be some gnashing of teeth about this one. And for those who don't have their own, teeth will probably be provided...... 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Rudolph Hucker

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Well we knew it was coming. Two years of him being a player I would put into the starting XI of the world Morton team ever isn't removed by a coupla good goals v Airdrie United. However he did kinda link well with Oliver and those play off games were the first times we saw him in his favoured position in a formation that never left him isolated. It's a shanner of a signing but there's at least a tiny bit of hope that it might work which is more than be said for signing Blues up for another year.

[madton]

MCT- aim is to run with a smaller higher quality squad.

Gus re-signs Blues and Muirhead.

Season tickets(if they ever come out) will fly off the shelf with these announcements.

Edited June 7, 2021 by madton

[AsimButtHitsASix]

6 minutes ago, madton said:

MCT- aim is to run with a smaller higher quality squad.

Technically we have achieved this. We have less players than we finished the season with and McGinty is no longer one of them so overall quality has increased

[The Ghost of B A R P]

On 05/06/2021 at 09:58, virginton said:

You didn't answer my question: how much real, actual money have you handed over as a result of your disastrously stupid predictions on Pie and Bovril?

Seems like a relevant test of which poster has had a disaster of a year, so it's put up or shut up time now.

Eh, I'm not actually here to answer your questions, massa... but I have, as a point of fact, answered your question: the information you (pretend to) seek is not a secret and is freely available in its appropriate place, i.e. on the politics threads. The fact that you're the only person on this entire fuckin forum who is obsessed with it, even though, you know, you weren't actually involved (and you're whining about it on the Morton thread), says it all... desperate, desperate deflection; see below.

On 05/06/2021 at 19:10, virginton said:

The fact that it rattles you two pea brains is a clear vote of confidence that my judgment is correct, yet again.

Too far. You really are delusional...

You insisted we weren't trying to sign another goalkeeper over and above McAdams. Wrong.

You insisted there was no way the SG could, would, or should make grants to Championship football clubs. Wrong (in spades).

You insisted Morton were laughable L1 shite who would not only certainly be relegated, but somehow deserved to be relegated. Wrong.

Worst of all, you insisted - and you don't appear to have given up on it - that getting relegated was actually the best thing for us. So wrong getting your head round it is like trying to get beyond quantum physics.

Just admit it, move on, and we'll all think better of you. (Either that, or you could continue to scream 'see, I telt ye!' every time we play badly next season, in a desperate attempt to 'prove', retrospectively, that you had in fact been right all along... And yes, that is a prediction.)

Spoiler

p.s. to go back to where this began, both Montrose and Airdrie players had been instructed to double up on McGuffie; he showed why by scoring the goal of the season to win the semi-final. 

Spoiler

 

[The Ghost of B A R P]

On 04/06/2021 at 22:40, No_Problemo said:

The criminal justice system makes no sense if it’s main purpose isn’t rehabilitation, and yet that doesn’t apply to someone who committed an offence over a decade ago and has not reoffended? 
 

Bit of a contradiction. Lithgow is literally an example of rehabilitation working.  What is the alternative...

No contradiction at all. I gave three context-specific qualifications to the general principle of rehabilitation.

The alternative is someone being rehabilitated but not being employed as a professional footballer (and now for a 'community-owned' club).

My take on this, as a Morton supporter, is that I don't think Morton should have signed him. That's all.

[DreamOakTree1]

The “quality over quantity” plan we recently voted for and bought into didn’t last long and appears to have been completely abandoned. It now looks like “sparsity over quantity”, and quality has left the equation.
We now have a smaller squad, the creative side of which includes several low standard, underperforming or inconsistent players who will automatically be involved in the match day squad, regardless of how they performed in the previous game. Not the best recipe for success unless we bring in a couple of marquee signings!

[Dunning1874]

45 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Well we knew it was coming. Two years of him being a player I would put into the starting XI of the world Morton team ever isn't removed by a coupla good goals v Airdrie United. However he did kinda link well with Oliver and those play off games were the first times we saw him in his favoured position in a formation that never left him isolated. It's a shanner of a signing but there's at least a tiny bit of hope that it might work which is more than be said for signing Blues up for another year.

Yeah, I entirely disagree with giving Muirhead a new deal but I can at least see the thought process which led MacPherson to that decision, whereas there is no discernible logic behind Blues.

We will still have at least 10 signings to come, potentially including new deals for McAdams, Ledger and Colville in the unlikely event any choose to stay, but the margin for error gets smaller with every previous flop being signed up. The new attacking signings are going to have to be very, very good to lift us away from a relegation battle when we're retaining so many players who contributed to 22 goals in 27 games.