The Greenock Morton Thread - It's Better Than Yours

[placidcasual]

Good to see Ray is settling in well too.

[JessieField]

It's going to be fun when MCT have to decide who's running what between themselves!  Fan ownership is not a guaranteed stairway to success.

[vikingTON]

3 hours ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

Come again?

I literally began by pointing out that you were 'asking' a question you (and every other Morton supporter) already know the answer to... so not just a rhetorical question, but an utterly pointless one...

And where did I say that Doogie 'set out' to piss the money away? He clearly didn't, but that's what happened. You then say that 'his daft ways' caused the club to 'leak money like a sieve'... but in the same breath that the reason we have the debt is the inadequacy of Championship prize money... Fuxake, which is it? Correct: it's the first one.

And if championship prize-money and other revenue is inadequate, where does that leave League One?

Erm no, I said it was irrelevant not inadequate, which it clearly is. We have been in the second tier for all but one season since 2007 and have posted one modest profit and an enormous stack of losses. 

The Championship prize money could be £1 million a year and this would not change, so long as there are nine other teams willing to spend that £1 million and more to stay in the league or win promotion. It only inflates the first team budget required to compete. 

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Our main sources of revenue -- does this really need to be said? -- are not 'meaningless for balancing the books'. The level of those main sources of revenue is what gives you half a chance of running sustainably, they're the core around which everything else is built. If your argument is that not enough has been built around them, I agree; but you don't need to deny the fundamentals in order to make that point.

Incorrect. Sustainability is based simply on spending less than you take in on a regular basis. It is irrelevant to your revenue, when the logic of competitive sport compels you to also increase costs - first team wages - to maintain access to it.

Which is why we are no closer to sustainability today than we were in May 2007. 

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The next bit is just a straight logical fallacy: 'disastrous short-term decisions' are, eh, disastrous, regardless of whether they're made to keep us in the second tier, get us out of the third tier, fly us to the moon...

Why would we reappoint Gus McPherson as manager in the event of relegation? The only plausible scenario for making this short-sighted decision involves scraping survival in the play-offs and hoping to scrape 8th next season. Nothing about the club's outlook will change and so we'll make the same mistakes as we've done before.

We'll probably be on manager 18 of the century by Christmas as a result.

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The next bit makes no sense whatsoever: capital investment rather than revenue? What does that even mean?

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I've got news for you (it's not really news, it's been said about a dozen times): our revenue will always be dependent, to quite a large extent, on 'league performance'... the better your 'league performance', the more prize-money you get... and the more people are likely to want to come and watch... and maybe even continue to support MCT.

This is really basic stuff.

 

Capital investment is what is needed to create a more sustainable football club with revenue from off the park as well. Revenue from prize money comes in one door and goes out the other, and is highly contingent on league performances anyway. 

Your depiction of 'better league performances' is in reality 'mebbe shitfest 8th in the second tier instead of 9th'. Nobody is buying into that. 

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So you're arguing that MCT's perspective is more informed by being 'fans'... than by being the people about to take on fiscal and legal responsibility for the club?

I'm sorry, but that is just mental. You're tying yourself in all sorts of knots here. You're actually still thinking as if Doogie is still around; MCT are not Douglas Rae and there is no prospect of them behaving in anything like the way he did. They might make bad decisions, sure; but they can't and won't be the same type of bad decision, because they don't have a tax-beneficial safety valve of 200- 300k per year to facilitate it.

 

They'll make the same foolish short-term decisions that have gotten us nowhere in 20 years, if they continue to view Championship status as what matters most. Right now, that is not true. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

First, nobody likes failure. All you have to do is read the recent posts on the threads on here from the likes of us, Ayr, Arbroath and, till a few months back, Queen of the South.

Look at this thread as being a good example - doom, gloom, apathy and pointless speculation like this topic. No positivity at all, except for the prospect of new ownership. 

Scraping survival if Inverness had scored a third goal the other night would not have been 'success' or changed the mood. A desperate, turgid campaign is in itself failure and one which does not attract buy-in. 

The actual point in those threads you should be paying attention to are the pledges from Ayr fans to chuck their contributions/streaming the games while watching dung Hopkinball from February to April. That cannot happen to the MCT scheme next season in a similar position, or else the entire transition model falls apart.

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Second. In this disaffected and Covid influenced word relegation will certainly see season ticket numbers and overall attendances drop. Conversely, stay in the Championship and it'll all feel a lot better, the old order having been left behind and the new adventure just beginning.

Erm no. You've just conceded the fact that relegation does not reduce home season ticket sales and now are trying to cite Covid as some magical exception to this rule. 

If the team is most likely is losing 0-1 with zero shots on goal next season under McPherson's management then the old order has not been left behind and the goodwill will be gone for good. 

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Third. You are convinced that if we stay up this season NEXT season will inevitably be a war of attrition that inevitably will end with relegation next May, leading to disenchantment and, to quote you, "there will not be sustained buy-in and so the premise of fan ownership falls apart". I don't share that pessimism about relegation next year, 

Then you are quite frankly deluded about the scale of the task facing the new ownership: rebuilding the club from top to bottom, with three-four weeks less time than our competitors and no greater resources than any side in the division apart from Arbroath. 

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Fourth. You totally ignore the effect that Covid and enforced absence of fans from games has had. 

The impact on fan behaviour from Covid is the same regardless of what league the team is playing in next season, and so is irrelevant to this discussion. It's an entirely separate concern that any club should have, but 'Championship football!' is not the deal-breaker that you think it is.

Edited May 5, 2021 by vikingTON

[Guest Flash]

2 hours ago, JessieField said:

It's going to be fun when MCT have to decide who's running what between themselves!  Fan ownership is not a guaranteed stairway to success.

I think they have already decided who is running what. According to Companies House, MCT has 5 directors. Various others are also involved in running it, per their website.

https://mortonclubtogether.com/leadership-team/

I don’t think anybody has claimed fan ownership is a guaranteed stairway to success. It is the model they have chosen and I wish them all the best with it.

[shaddypeekey]

We'll stay up. 

Here's my very cunning logic why: 

Montrose and Airdrie are pish, they only have their position due to only having to play 22 games. they would have fell away over a full season, with Falkirk being in the mix. 

Cove Rangers aren't that great either, we'll beat them over two legs. Our cup game is pretty solid this year, which is essentially what a play off is. I'd argue if we had had a full quota of games we would have been safe. 

 

I'm correct, no need to disagree. 

 

Thank you. 

[Rudolph Hucker]

5 hours ago, virginton said:

Scraping survival if Inverness had scored a third goal the other night would not have been 'success' or changed the mood. A desperate, turgid campaign is in itself failure and one which does not attract buy-in.  

 Hmm, as per usual you’re choosing to cherrypick some statements out of context  in order to support your rickety stance. 
If you really think the mood amongst the support would NOT have changed had we finished 8th last Friday then there is truly no point in debating it with you, though I think you’re just choosing to ignore it because it doesn’t fit your hopelessly entrenched position. If we somehow get through the next two weeks with our Championship status intact then we’ll see just how much the mood changes.

The actual point in those threads you should be paying attention to are the pledges from Ayr fans to chuck their contributions/streaming the games while watching dung Hopkinball from February to April. Think you’ll find the mood there has lightened quite a bit these last few days, too, which again supports my point.

That cannot happen to the MCT scheme next season in a similar position, or else the entire transition model falls apart.  Never said it would - what a pointless statement.

 

Erm no. You've just conceded the fact that relegation does not reduce home season ticket sales and now are trying to cite Covid as some magical exception to this rule.  
Ermmm, no. I said nothing of the kind. Quite the opposite, in fact. Why do you insist on doing this time after time?? As  for Covid, the effect it has had due to lockdown & games beamed from empty stadiums is to make some fans realise they can get by without going to games. Add to that the apathy induced by relegation and you could be losing some of the support for good.

 

If the team is most likely is losing 0-1 with zero shots on goal next season under McPherson's management then the old order has not been left behind and the goodwill will be gone for good.  Whit?? The Raes are that “old order”; THEY will have “gone for good”. What the hell are you wittering on about?

 

Then you are quite frankly deluded about the scale of the task facing the new ownership: rebuilding the club from top to bottom, with three-four weeks less time than our competitors and no greater resources than any side in the division apart from Arbroath. Oh come now, we’re talking about a small Scottish football club - it’s hardly Glaxo Smith Klein. And we will finish our season two and a half weeks after the rest. And, funnily enough, that two and a half weeks is when most players and managers tend to take their summer breaks..... so, again, what’s your point?  In addition, I think it’s quite likely that MCT already have an idea of who they might want as manager - who knows, they might even have sounded him out. And if they have, then he in turn could already have signings in mind. All of a sudden we wouldn’t be far behind the rest at all, hmmm?

 

The impact on fan behaviour from Covid is the same regardless of what league the team is playing in next season, and so is irrelevant to this discussion. Nonsense - it’s ENTIRELY relevant. As I said, “ Covid has had such an effect that if we lose fans this season - ie by going down - we will have a hell of a job getting them back. A lot of people have found other things to do that are cheaper and/or more enjoyable than going to the fitba' “.

 

It's an entirely separate concern that any club should have, but 'Championship football!' is not the deal-breaker that you think it is. Aye? Sez you - I beg to differ.

 

You’re having an absolute mare on this topic. Seriously, you should step away from the keyboard for a while, or go and annoy folk on other forums.

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Rudolph Hucker

[vikingTON]

Learn to fucking multi-quote chump. 

[Rudolph Hucker]

9 minutes ago, virginton said:

Learn to fucking multi-quote chump. 

I’m on my mobile, chump. 
 

[AmericanFan]

23 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

Montrose will be favourites and we'd have had more reason to be confident of a win if we were up against a Falkirk side who've fallen to pieces. Even if we somehow scrape past Montrose with one goal in 180/210 minutes being the best we can hope for, I don’t see any way this team gets through another two legged tie after that regardless. It looks more like a question of who relegates us rather than whether we get relegated or not.

So you're saying I should go put a bunch of money on Morton to cover vs. Montrose?

[baba douche]

16 hours ago, virginton said:

Erm no, I said it was irrelevant not inadequate, which it clearly is. We have been in the second tier for all but one season since 2007 and have posted one modest profit and an enormous stack of losses. 

The Championship prize money could be £1 million a year and this would not change, so long as there are nine other teams willing to spend that £1 million and more to stay in the league or win promotion. It only inflates the first team budget required to compete. 

Incorrect. Sustainability is based simply on spending less than you take in on a regular basis. It is irrelevant to your revenue, when the logic of competitive sport compels you to also increase costs - first team wages - to maintain access to it.

Which is why we are no closer to sustainability today than we were in May 2007. 

Why would we reappoint Gus McPherson as manager in the event of relegation? The only plausible scenario for making this short-sighted decision involves scraping survival in the play-offs and hoping to scrape 8th next season. Nothing about the club's outlook will change and so we'll make the same mistakes as we've done before.

We'll probably be on manager 18 of the century by Christmas as a result.

Capital investment is what is needed to create a more sustainable football club with revenue from off the park as well. Revenue from prize money comes in one door and goes out the other, and is highly contingent on league performances anyway. 

Your depiction of 'better league performances' is in reality 'mebbe shitfest 8th in the second tier instead of 9th'. Nobody is buying into that. 

They'll make the same foolish short-term decisions that have gotten us nowhere in 20 years, if they continue to view Championship status as what matters most. Right now, that is not true. 

^^^ like trying to discuss particle physics with a gibbon.

[skysthelimit]

Will the club stay full time if the worst happens ?

Edited May 6, 2021 by Cambyger

[Tri-TON]

I will be shocked if we stay up. We have almost nothing going forward. And as expected, all three of the League 1 sides score goals. Grim.

[GableEnder21]

We'll stay up. 
Here's my very cunning logic why: 
Montrose and Airdrie are pish, they only have their position due to only having to play 22 games. they would have fell away over a full season, with Falkirk being in the mix. 
Cove Rangers aren't that great either, we'll beat them over two legs. Our cup game is pretty solid this year, which is essentially what a play off is. I'd argue if we had had a full quota of games we would have been safe. 
 
I'm correct, no need to disagree. 
 
Thank you. 

Cheers pal. I'll send this onto the club for the changing room wall.

[Aufc]

We'll stay up. 
Here's my very cunning logic why: 
Montrose and Airdrie are pish, they only have their position due to only having to play 22 games. they would have fell away over a full season, with Falkirk being in the mix. 
Cove Rangers aren't that great either, we'll beat them over two legs. Our cup game is pretty solid this year, which is essentially what a play off is. I'd argue if we had had a full quota of games we would have been safe. 
 
I'm correct, no need to disagree. 
 
Thank you. 

I love posts like this

[shaddypeekey]

1 hour ago, GableEnder21 said:

23 hours ago, shaddypeekey said:

We'll stay up. 
Here's my very cunning logic why: 
Montrose and Airdrie are pish, they only have their position due to only having to play 22 games. they would have fell away over a full season, with Falkirk being in the mix. 
Cove Rangers aren't that great either, we'll beat them over two legs. Our cup game is pretty solid this year, which is essentially what a play off is. I'd argue if we had had a full quota of games we would have been safe. 
 
I'm correct, no need to disagree. 
 
Thank you. 

Cheers pal. I'll send this onto the club for the changing room wall.

Send them this one instead: "Airdrie, Montrose and Cove are pish, please be slightly less pish than them". Motivational, yet succinct. 

[NUMBER 7]

I think Airdrie could be the winners of these Play Offs. They are a horrible team to play against, a bit like a lesser version of the Livingston team that got out the Championship through the play offs a few years back. They are actually the form team in Div 1. 

Montrose play the best football of the three Div 1 sides, they play the ball well through midfield and down the left side, but the guy McLean up front is hopeless. 

Cove have the best finisher in Megginson and they can lay the boot in a fair bit.

Morton. They need to be switched on and up for it from the off or they could come a cropper to any of the three.

 

 

 

[Tri-TON]

If we can find goals (big if) then I think we could sneak it.

[RossDee01]

There’s a horse running in the 12.58 at Lyon called Greenock Morton. It’s the favourite as well.

[Fae_the_'briggs]

16 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

There’s a horse running in the 12.58 at Lyon called Greenock Morton. It’s the favourite as well.

What price is it,  10's?