The Greenock Morton Thread - It's Better Than Yours

[Rudolph Hucker]

4 hours ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

You're arguing that the single-biggest factor for any club -- revenue -- can be set aside in the present case, for a combination of the following reasons:

1. that the football on offer will be better in L1;
2. that supporters are (therefore) more likely to cut MCT some slack and continue their financial support;
3. that some of the financial impact will be offset a. by a (relatively) larger home support turning out to watch a 'winning' team and b. by having a lower wage bill;
4. that squad-building in the time-scale determined by being in the play-offs will be easier in L1;
5. that the comprehensive overhaul the club requires is more likely to take place and/or will be easier to achieve in L1.

As I've said before, I don't think it's possible to say that any of that is definitively 'wrong' (we're speculating about what will or might happen in the future, after all); but your argument that staying up isn't the best thing for us ('Pyrrhic victory') has to overcome the basic force of the central point about revenue. I don't think it comes close to doing that, for reasons I'll try to arrange around the above headings:

1. that is possible/probable, but not by any means a certainty;

2. more important, I just don't buy the argument that the supporters' commitment to making financial contributions will turn on what people are seeing on the park in the first year of new ownership; the credibility of MCT in general and their perceived progress in undertaking the 'comprehensive overhaul' is far more likely to be the key consideration. Contributors have stuck with it (and numbers increased) through this season, which has been, for all sorts of reasons, the worst possible environment in which to enthuse the support. Even if we conclude that what league we're in next year makes no difference with regard to supporters' contributions, we're still back to the fundamental point that whatever supporter contribution there is will be on top of the club's main sources of revenue... which will be lower in L1;

3. again, even if we assume the first part of that to be true, we're still talking about mitigating loss of income, not maintaining what we have. The second part is more difficult: yes, we may be able to reduce the wage bill more or less substantially... but, from where we're starting, that means moving to a hybrid part-time structure. If that's what has to happen, fine; but let's not kid ourselves we're already at the 'Arbroath model' argument and that there are large question marks against ever coming back from that, i.e. we risk setting the limit of the club's ambition at 'surviving in the Championship';

4. not proven. Whatever league we're in and whoever the manager is, a core squad will have to be assembled over a 6-8 week period. Whether it's a new manager MCT have their eye on or McPherson getting the nod (and regardless of what division we're in), it's highly likely that 10-12 of the current squad will be offered deals, with 6-8 new faces coming in (some as loans), and we run with a smaller but better squad than this year. That's not the clear-out some supporters would like, but, as you acknowledge, compromise is likely... but because of the time-scale, not because of relegation.  Even if whoever is the manager decides to go for a clear-out, the task is just as difficult in L1... in fact, if we are relegated and there's a need to move to a hybrid part-time structure, you could argue it's even more difficult on the time-scale available, because the club has to adapt to a different player market along with everything else that's going on;

5. it's not credible to imagine that a 'comprehensive overhaul' can be undertaken on a 6-8 week time-scale, regardless of relegation or not. More important, it doesn't have to: getting a manager and squad in place will be the first priority, of necessity, new ownership or not. The broader overhaul is a massive task and will be ongoing for maybe 18 months... and, again, I don't see how that process will be positively affected because we're somehow 'under less pressure' ticking along in the middle of L1. You seem to imply that an overhaul is also more likely to take place in L1 than if we survive; again, that's just supposition. The reality is -- we agree -- that it has to happen and that it'll be a long and difficult process, no matter what league we're in... but it will have more chance of taking place successfully if the club has greater revenues. No apologies for the fact that we come back round again to money. If going into L1 magically opened up new revenue streams for us, or the loss was only marginal, we'd be having a different discussion altogether...

I'm tempted to say in conclusion that we should just ask MCT what their views are on the merits or otherwise of some purging relegation... but I think it's pretty clear what the answer would be.

I've skimmed through all this guff on whether we'd be better off being relegated or staying up during this transitional time and couldn't be arsed posting about it, but I pretty much share your views as above. Dunning has also done a good job in putting forward the case for Morton doing their utmost to stay in the Championship. VT, as usual, has chosen a contrarian argument and will stick to it like a dug with a bone till everyone else gets bored with it and goes away and he can think he's won, but he cherry-picks the points that suit him and makes some glaring errors or omissions (in my view at least) with regard to the downside (pardon the pun) of relegation. To me there are more pros than cons in staying up; relegation at this stage could take years to recover from.

It's a pretty pointless debate anyway. It's not something that the support can have any effect or influence on (apart from withholding their money from MCT or not attending games or, shiver, not buying streamed games), and it's a debate that nobody can win or lose as there will only be one outcome and, whichever it is, we proceed from there.

Hopefully the issue will npw die a death and we can all look forward to helping MCT overhaul the club from piestalls to playing staff and giving Morton some forward motion instead of the becalmed state we've been in this last season and earlier.

Hopefully.......

 

 

[vikingTON]

5 hours ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

You're arguing that the single-biggest factor for any club -- revenue -- can be set aside in the present case, for a combination of the following reasons:

If revenue is the biggest factor for a club's progress, then why did we have £2.5 million of debt on the books as a largely established second tier club? What benefit did the football club receive from that extra  revenue over all those years: what investments were made in the future to make it a more credible organisation?

Oh that's right - absolutely hee-haw. The only difference between Championship and League One revenue streams is felt by the bank balances of the Herbalife jobbers who get paid for a year and then swan off to Kelty. Enough.

There is a sustainable budget for Championship football and a sustainable budget for League One football. The onus of the new ownership is to work within those bounds while using its ongoing source of capital from the fanbase to make the club fit for the 21st century. The best way to kill off that capital stream is with yet another eye-bleeding struggle to get 40 points next season, that is the only thing here that is unsustainable. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

 

I haven't read anything about this but was the whole point of the group to take ownership of the club? If so, the one person who voted against it is surely OFTW?

I suspect the vote against is because the Raes get to scuttle off with the car park land as part of the deal. Though I voted in favour I'm surprised the objection was low as one. 

 

[Rudolph Hucker]

16 minutes ago, virginton said:

The best way to kill off that capital stream is with yet another eye-bleeding struggle to get 40 points next season, that is the only thing here that is unsustainable. 

No, the best way to kill off that capital stream is to get relegated.  The casual support, occasional attenders and lapsed supporters are far more likely to get on board and subscribe to MCT and go to games if we are in the Championship than in the division below, and those who already attend/buy streams will be more likely to subscribe to MCT or increase their contributions if we stay up.

Nobody wants to be associated with failure. Staying in the Championship under MCT ownership will give the club the chance to build on the latent goodwill that exists toward the club and give it a new impetus if marketed adequately and correctly, whereas going down will see a loss of interest from the general public, MCT support and contributions reduce from current levels and next season’s crowds, admission prices, stream takeups (if needed) all reduced significantly, not to mention the difficulty involved in getting promoted again during the short to medium term. In a word, disaster.

Anyone genuinely advocating relegation as being a good thing for Greenock Morton FC is either a few sandwiches short of a picnic or is burying their head in the sand.

 

[TheScarf]

You’re playing Montrose lads.

[Jamie_M]

2 hours ago, TheScarf said:

You’re playing Montrose lads.

Which we are absolutely delighted about.

Tonight.

We may not be so delighted about it come Saturday but tonight, it's breathtakingly beautiful.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Jamie_M

[The Ghost of B A R P]

3 hours ago, virginton said:

If revenue is the biggest factor for a club's progress, then why did we have £2.5 million of debt on the books as a largely established second tier club? What benefit did the football club receive from that extra  revenue over all those years: what investments were made in the future to make it a more credible organisation?

Oh that's right - absolutely hee-haw. The only difference between Championship and League One revenue streams is felt by the bank balances of the Herbalife jobbers who get paid for a year and then swan off to Kelty. Enough.

There is a sustainable budget for Championship football and a sustainable budget for League One football. The onus of the new ownership is to work within those bounds while using its ongoing source of capital from the fanbase to make the club fit for the 21st century. The best way to kill off that capital stream is with yet another eye-bleeding struggle to get 40 points next season, that is the only thing here that is unsustainable. 

The fact that you're now asking questions you already know the answer to suggests you're digging in way too hard here... The £2.5M, as you know very well, wasn't 'revenue', it was chocolate money from Golden Casket, which allowed Doogie to change his mind whenever he liked (and regardless of which division we were in, btw). And there were no investments made in the future of the club, either, for more or less the same reasons; but again, you know that.

Neither MCT nor anybody else who runs Morton in the foreseeable future will be able to do the same. The best way of ensuring that we don't accumulate any future debt, even short-term, is to maximise revenue; and of course to spend what we have as efficiently as possible (which more or less comes down to better judgement when signing players).

MCT have very sensibly said there are budgets in place for both Championship and L1; but they've also answered the rhetorical question I posed earlier by saying, very clearly, that they hope it's the Championship. That isn't coming from the same place as a supporter's general desire to be in as high a league as possible (which is what your counter-intuitive argument is presumably aimed at); it's coming from a clear understanding of the financial stakes.

As Rudolph says, the discussion is largely immaterial in any case, because both the supporters and MCT will have to deal with whatever this group of players delivers. It's one thing to be realistic about us possibly or probably going down; but it's another thing altogether to wish for it.

[Dunning1874]

Montrose will be favourites and we'd have had more reason to be confident of a win if we were up against a Falkirk side who've fallen to pieces. Even if we somehow scrape past Montrose with one goal in 180/210 minutes being the best we can hope for, I don’t see any way this team gets through another two legged tie after that regardless. It looks more like a question of who relegates us rather than whether we get relegated or not.

[AyrshireTon]

10 hours ago, TheScarf said:

You’re playing Montrose lads.

"Playing" is not the word I'd use, but the consequences of this now being the fixture are, of course, hilarious.

[SpoonTon]

As long as we're spending every last minute of our training sessions practising penalties, there's no reason why we can't survive. Undoubtedly very difficult games, but we have 6 draws and a win in our 7 cup ties this season (5 shootouts). 1 League Two club, 2 League One clubs, 2 Championship clubs, 2 Premiership clubs - tight matches, no matter the opponent. 

[vikingTON]

8 hours ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

The fact that you're now asking questions you already know the answer to suggests you're digging in way too hard here... The £2.5M, as you know very well, wasn't 'revenue', it was chocolate money from Golden Casket, which allowed Doogie to change his mind whenever he liked (and regardless of which division we were in, btw). And there were no investments made in the future of the club, either, for more or less the same reasons; but again, you know that.

You clearly don't understand how a rhetorical question works. Which is why you've somehow contrived to 'answer' it incorrectly anyway. 

Douglas Rae did not set out to spend £2.5 million more than the club took in - that was not the plan (although he also did nothing to stop his daft ways from making the club leak money like a sieve). The reason why we have that debt is in part because 'Championship prize money' and other revenue is absolutely meaningless for balancing the books - because you also have to assemble a Championship squad on (unaffordable) Championship wages to maintain access to it. The revenue therefore goes straight out of the door again and does absolutely nothing to develop the club. 

Quote

Neither MCT nor anybody else who runs Morton in the foreseeable future will be able to do the same. The best way of ensuring that we don't accumulate any future debt, even short-term, is to maximise revenue; and of course to spend what we have as efficiently as possible (which more or less comes down to better judgement when signing players).

No, because as you have just confirmed there is a sustainable budget for playing in a lower tier as well. 

The greatest threat of accumulating debt comes from the same series of disastrous short-term decisions made to keep us in the second tier nearly every year since 2007, instead of focusing on getting the long-term structure right for sustainable growth of our own revenue that is not dependent on league performance. That requires capital investment rather than revenue. 

Quote

MCT have very sensibly said there are budgets in place for both Championship and L1; but they've also answered the rhetorical question I posed earlier by saying, very clearly, that they hope it's the Championship. That isn't coming from the same place as a supporter's general desire to be in as high a league as possible (which is what your counter-intuitive argument is presumably aimed at); it's coming from a clear understanding of the financial stakes.

It absolutely is coming from a supporter's point of view because that's what they are. I don't blame them for this and don't expect them to publicly go out and say 'lads, down tools on Saturday'. 

But Douglas Rae was also a fan and we have seen how myopic obsessions with our rightful league status/more crumbs from the table please have worked out for us over the past twenty years. The priority has to be on off the park development of the club for the first time this fucking century. 

Quote

As Rudolph says, the discussion is largely immaterial in any case, because both the supporters and MCT will have to deal with whatever this group of players delivers. It's one thing to be realistic about us possibly or probably going down; but it's another thing altogether to wish for it.

If it was immaterial to discuss the future of the club then we wouldn't have fan ownership of it right now. 

[vikingTON]

6 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

As long as we're spending every last minute of our training sessions practising penalties, there's no reason why we can't survive. Undoubtedly very difficult games, but we have 6 draws and a win in our 7 cup ties this season (5 shootouts). 1 League Two club, 2 League One clubs, 2 Championship clubs, 2 Premiership clubs - tight matches, no matter the opponent. 

I agree, unless there's a polished Championship club in waiting then our play-offs are likely to go all the way to extra time and penalties. 

[Piehutt]

Have to say, not hopeful of getting through. Hopefully we can squeeze past Arbroath... but just don't see where the goals are coming from to get through 2 rounds of 2 leg ties. 

At least we have been reasonably robust at the back... perhaps the players and coaching staff will see that now is the time to roll the dice and take a few chances going forward. 

Not seen a lot of Muirhead in the games I've managed to watch, but he has to be a better option than Orsi. Amazed he didn't get 30 mins at Arbroath. 

[SpoonTon]

1 hour ago, Piehutt said:

Have to say, not hopeful of getting through. Hopefully we can squeeze past Arbroath... but just don't see where the goals are coming from to get through 2 rounds of 2 leg ties. 

At least we have been reasonably robust at the back... perhaps the players and coaching staff will see that now is the time to roll the dice and take a few chances going forward. 

Not seen a lot of Muirhead in the games I've managed to watch, but he has to be a better option than Orsi. Amazed he didn't get 30 mins at Arbroath. 

You don't see a lot of Muirhead, even when he's on the pitch. 

[Rudolph Hucker]

54 minutes ago, virginton said:

You clearly don't understand how a rhetorical question works. Which is why you've somehow contrived to 'answer' it incorrectly anyway. 

Douglas Rae did not set out to spend £2.5 million more than the club took in - that was not the plan (although he also did nothing to stop his daft ways from making the club leak money like a sieve). The reason why we have that debt is in part because 'Championship prize money' and other revenue is absolutely meaningless for balancing the books - because you also have to assemble a Championship squad on (unaffordable) Championship wages to maintain access to it. The revenue therefore goes straight out of the door again and does absolutely nothing to develop the club. 

No, because as you have just confirmed there is a sustainable budget for playing in a lower tier as well. 

The greatest threat of accumulating debt comes from the same series of disastrous short-term decisions made to keep us in the second tier nearly every year since 2007, instead of focusing on getting the long-term structure right for sustainable growth of our own revenue that is not dependent on league performance. That requires capital investment rather than revenue. 

It absolutely is coming from a supporter's point of view because that's what they are. I don't blame them for this and don't expect them to publicly go out and say 'lads, down tools on Saturday'. 

But Douglas Rae was also a fan and we have seen how myopic obsessions with our rightful league status/more crumbs from the table please have worked out for us over the past twenty years. The priority has to be on off the park development of the club for the first time this fucking century. 

If it was immaterial to discuss the future of the club then we wouldn't have fan ownership of it right now. 

That horse you're desperately clinging to must have died of drowning, because you're flogging it with one hand and desperately clutching at straws with the other. Just reread the post above and for once recognise it for the nonsense that it is - the first part is history and not relevant to the current discussion;  MCT would be in dereliction of their duty if they did NOT have a contingency plan for relegation;  and your last paragraph is a statement of the bleedin' obvious that does nothing to advance your position. 

Time to accept the logic that if we go down we lose a lot of the interest and goodwill (and potential new MCT  contributors) that the takeover has generated, we lose a significant number of season ticket money and pay-at-the-gate money, we face reduced league payments and we would face several  clubs that would make promotion if anything more difficult than survival in the Championship.  The club would be as dead in the water as it has been this season and it would be very difficult to create any significant forward momentum.

It's simple fact-based analysis. Accept that and go find another pointless argument to bore us with. 

[vikingTON]

Why would MCT lose goodwill for a relegation that took place under the Raes' ownership? Be extremely specific.

You have got this entirely wrong. The threat to the new ownership's standing comes from another hopeless campaign next season at this level, most likely under Gus McPherson. That's the opposite of the clean break with the past that is needed to convince doubters that this is not just going to be different clowns in club ties making the same short-sighted mistakes. 

Without that break then there will not be sustained buy-in and so the premise of fan ownership falls apart, whether we're paying more money to different jobbers on the park or not. 

There is also absolutely zero evidence to show that GMFC loses season ticket holders when playing in a lower league, so rather than 'facts' that is what is known as 'lies'. The only proven instrument to reduce home season ticket numbers is in fact 'circling the drain of a division for years', which is your grand plan for the future. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by vikingTON

[The Ghost of B A R P]

3 hours ago, virginton said:

You clearly don't understand how a rhetorical question works. Which is why you've somehow contrived to 'answer' it incorrectly anyway. 

Douglas Rae did not set out to spend £2.5 million more than the club took in - that was not the plan (although he also did nothing to stop his daft ways from making the club leak money like a sieve). The reason why we have that debt is in part because 'Championship prize money' and other revenue is absolutely meaningless for balancing the books - because you also have to assemble a Championship squad on (unaffordable) Championship wages to maintain access to it. The revenue therefore goes straight out of the door again and does absolutely nothing to develop the club. 

Come again?

I literally began by pointing out that you were 'asking' a question you (and every other Morton supporter) already know the answer to... so not just a rhetorical question, but an utterly pointless one...

And where did I say that Doogie 'set out' to piss the money away? He clearly didn't, but that's what happened. You then say that 'his daft ways' caused the club to 'leak money like a sieve'... but in the same breath that the reason we have the debt is the inadequacy of Championship prize money... Fuxake, which is it? Correct: it's the first one.

And if championship prize-money and other revenue is inadequate, where does that leave League One?

Our main sources of revenue -- does this really need to be said? -- are not 'meaningless for balancing the books'. The level of those main sources of revenue is what gives you half a chance of running sustainably, they're the core around which everything else is built. If your argument is that not enough has been built around them, I agree; but you don't need to deny the fundamentals in order to make that point.

3 hours ago, virginton said:

No, because as you have just confirmed there is a sustainable budget for playing in a lower tier as well. 

The greatest threat of accumulating debt comes from the same series of disastrous short-term decisions made to keep us in the second tier nearly every year since 2007, instead of focusing on getting the long-term structure right for sustainable growth of our own revenue that is not dependent on league performance. That requires capital investment rather than revenue. 

Of course a new ownership group, who don't know which division we'll be in, have produced budgets -- presumably sustainable -- for both scenarios... It's almost as if they might have some understanding of what's involved in running a football club.

The next bit is just a straight logical fallacy: 'disastrous short-term decisions' are, eh, disastrous, regardless of whether they're made to keep us in the second tier, get us out of the third tier, fly us to the moon...

The next bit makes no sense whatsoever: capital investment rather than revenue? What does that even mean?

I've got news for you (it's not really news, it's been said about a dozen times): our revenue will always be dependent, to quite a large extent, on 'league performance'... the better your 'league performance', the more prize-money you get... and the more people are likely to want to come and watch... and maybe even continue to support MCT.

This is really basic stuff.

3 hours ago, virginton said:

It absolutely is coming from a supporter's point of view because that's what they are. I don't blame them for this and don't expect them to publicly go out and say 'lads, down tools on Saturday'. 

But Douglas Rae was also a fan and we have seen how myopic obsessions with our rightful league status/more crumbs from the table please have worked out for us over the past twenty years. The priority has to be on off the park development of the club for the first time this fucking century. 

So you're arguing that MCT's perspective is more informed by being 'fans'... than by being the people about to take on fiscal and legal responsibility for the club?

I'm sorry, but that is just mental. You're tying yourself in all sorts of knots here. You're actually still thinking as if Doogie is still around; MCT are not Douglas Rae and there is no prospect of them behaving in anything like the way he did. They might make bad decisions, sure; but they can't and won't be the same type of bad decision, because they don't have a tax-beneficial safety valve of 200- 300k per year to facilitate it.

[And I agree, btw, that off-field development has to be a much greater priority than it has been, because even 'Championship prize-money' and MCT contributions won't be enough to bring success... see above]

3 hours ago, virginton said:

If it was immaterial to discuss the future of the club then we wouldn't have fan ownership of it right now. 

You know exactly what's being said here. Immaterial in the sense that your preference, my preference, MCT's preference won't have any bearing on what happens and we'll all have to deal with whichever scenario plays out.

You're trying to find justification for wanting us relegated. Time to stop digging.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

As a number of posters have said, there's no real basis for optimism going into the play-offs... but there's no real reason for us to be so pessimistic, either.

It's Montrose and Cove or Airdrie: we know we're not very good, but do we really think they are?

I'd have us marginal favourites against Montrose over two legs, even money if we get through to the final.

It's a toss-up and we just have to hope that two or three of our mob can find big performances when it matters. 

[#Gary]

Prices confirmed at £12 for the Montrose streams, with season ticket holders getting the home leg at no additional cost.

My favourite thing though is when I get to the bottom of the article and the website has "you may also like... That the car park was free to use one day back in 2017" 

[Rudolph Hucker]

12 minutes ago, virginton said:

Why would MCT lose goodwill for a relegation that took place under the Raes' ownership? Be extremely specific.

You have got this entirely wrong. The threat to the new ownership's standing comes from another hopeless campaign next season at this level, most likely under Gus McPherson. That's the opposite of the clean break with the past that is needed to convince doubters that this is not just going to be different clowns in club ties making the same short-sighted mistakes. 

Without that break then there will not be sustained buy-in and so the premise of fan ownership falls apart, whether we're paying more money to different jobbers on the park or not. 

There is also absolutely zero evidence to show that GMFC loses season ticket holders when playing in a lower league, so rather than 'facts' that is what is known as 'lies'. The only proven instrument to reduce home season ticket numbers is in fact 'circling the drain of a division for years', which is your grand plan for the future. 

*sigh*......      yep, like a yappy wee dug with a bone. 

Why would MCT lose goodwill? Why would Morton lose season ticket holders? Why would relegation be financially calamitous?  Here we go:

First, nobody likes failure. All you have to do is read the recent posts on the threads on here from the likes of us, Ayr, Arbroath and, till a few months back, Queen of the South.  I haven't looked, but I bet the Falkirk thread ain't a barrel of laughs right now either, and those clubs' own messageboards would've been full of doom and gloom too., just like ours is. Assuming that those who post on these threads and boards are among the more dedicated supporters, it's surprising to note the level of apathy, disinterest and, often, downright dislike  for their clubs and their performances.  That level of disenchantment will also affect the less fervent supporters, reducing their feeling for the club and cutting down the number of games they go to, season tickets they buy, club merchandise they buy, and it will take a lot to get those fans to come back. A few seasons in a lower division won't do it. 

Now take a look at the Ayr and Arbroath threads since around 9.30pm last Friday. Sweetness and light, relaxed, optimistic, love for their clubs - because they stayed in this division. Same for QoS fans since January time. Get relegated, you lose all that. Look at this thread as being a good example - doom, gloom, apathy and pointless speculation like this topic. No positivity at all, except for the prospect of new ownership. 

Second. We are about to enter that new ownership. MCT have obviously done a power of work to get us to this point and deserve the goodwill and positivity that has been generated. In any normal year that goodwill would continue even if we go down now, because as we all know it was the Raes who refused to back the club for one more season, it was their parsimony and complacency that has brought us to this. MCT are the white knights hopefully bringing in a new dawn. Get relegated and a lot of that feeling will evaporate; it certainly won't lead to the uplift in MCT membership, subscriptions, season ticket sales and attendances that MCT, and all of us, hope for. In this disaffected and Covid influenced word relegation will certainly see season ticket numbers and overall attendances drop. Conversely, stay in the Championship and it'll all feel a lot better, the old order having been left behind and the new adventure just beginning. 

 

Third. You are convinced that if we stay up this season NEXT season will inevitably be a war of attrition that inevitably will end with relegation next May, leading to disenchantment and, to quote you, "there will not be sustained buy-in and so the premise of fan ownership falls apart". I don't share that pessimism about relegation next year, and after a year away from live football I think that relegation THIS season would simply bring forward your projected effect to the present day albeit, I feel, to a lesser degree than you predict.

Fourth. You totally ignore the effect that Covid and enforced absence of fans from games has had. This is NOT a normal year; it couldn't be much further from it. I did a quick email survey of around 20 pals who support several different clubs and only 4 said they felt the same enthusiasm for going to games as they felt 15 months ago.  5 season ticket holders said they wouldn't be renewing it next year and 11 folk said they hadn't missed going to ges nearly as much as they'd expected and would be more choosy about what games they went to in future.  4 said they wouldn't be going back except for the occasional "big" game. Covid has had such an effect that if we lose fans this season - ie by going down - we will have a hell of a job getting them back. A lot of people have found other things to do that are cheaper and/or more enjoyable than going to the fitba'. 

We will do better going forward by remaining in this division. FACT, like it or not.