The Greenock Morton Thread - It's Better Than Yours

[TxRover]

6 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

Sure... but I guess if you’re a Morton (or Raith) supporter, the possibility of a horrendous season in the Championship can never be ruled out...

Believe me, I expect next year to be a rude awakening for a number of Raith fans! Without a significant influx of talent, the chances of us finishing top 5 will be slim, as a season long avoidance of injuries has never been our strong point, and this year we faded as the injuries accumulated. I’m just perplexed by the confidence of some that Morton can either stay somewhere between sixth and eighth in the Championship, or top four in League One, while rebuilding.

[Aufc]

Where is this chat exactly? Be extremely specific. 

[emoji23][emoji23] i hope you come down just so i get this level of chat on a weekly basis x

[vikingTON]

That'll be 'no idea, I was talking utter shite' then.

[etherglide]

18 minutes ago, virginton said:

Where is this chat exactly? Be extremely specific. 

No need to be too specific. Falkirk fans were foaming at the mouth, raging that their team were in the “seaside league”, and adamant that they would go straight back up at the first time of asking. And with no less than a 20 point advantage. Seriously. Youve changed your tune, bearing in mind you're almost in that seaside league. Be specific? Youre the one that files almost every online conversation so rhat you can fire it back at them somewhere down the line. You find it.

[vikingTON]

25 minutes ago, etherglide said:

No need to be too specific. Falkirk fans were foaming at the mouth, raging that their team were in the “seaside league”, and adamant that they would go straight back up at the first time of asking. And with no less than a 20 point advantage. Seriously. Youve changed your tune, bearing in mind you're almost in that seaside league. Be specific? Youre the one that files almost every online conversation so rhat you can fire it back at them somewhere down the line. You find it.

[Dunning1874]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

I'm not glossing over the strength of League One at all.

I expect the nature of the rebuild to practically require a multi-year stint in the third tier. If we can get our house in order soon enough to make a serious run in the play-offs or better towards the end of Year 1, then that's great, but that should not be the priority.

This has got nothing to do with a title challenge and better days out: it's about equipping the club/business as a whole to be viable first and better run and resourced in the long run. A necessary accompaniment to this should be a commitment to attacking football, though not something as daft as a 'philosophy' or a demand for winning football. Just trying to and actually scoring goals on a regular basis would be a start on the pitch, while we move to a hopefully much better model off the park.

Equipping the club to be viable is obviously considerably more difficult if we're in League One rather than the Championship, on account of the massive difference in income. This isn't even up for debate, it's an objective fact.

[Guest]

Just now, Dunning1874 said:

Equipping the club to be viable is obviously considerably more difficult if we're in League One rather than the Championship, on account of the massive difference in income. This isn't even up for debate, it's an objective fact.

100% correct. It makes absolutely no sense to follow the path of Falkirk. You only need to look at St Mirren under Tom Hendrie in 1999 when we were the bookies favourites for relegation and bounced our way to the League title. Saints were crippled with debts during that period and beyond. Relegation would have meant part time football. 

[vikingTON]

33 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Equipping the club to be viable is obviously considerably more difficult if we're in League One rather than the Championship, on account of the massive difference in income. This isn't even up for debate, it's an objective fact.

No, it just means matching outgoings to revenue like any other business has to do on an annual basis. By far the largest expense at a football club (as set out in the takeover document) is the first team budget which - oh look! - has been inefficiently squandered on a ridiculously large squad of utter shite and ringers who have never seen the light of day all season - all on 'full-time professional' deals that confer no competitive advantage at all on the park. Players who do nothing other than train and kick a football all week and yet can't stick it in the net when it matters, or trap the ball. 

So your smoking gun argument for the benefits of survival in fact sets out another advantage of rebuilding in a lower tier: finally ending our nonsense, bargain bin rummaging status in the full-time market out of necessity and recalibrating to what is actually sustainable and sensible. If Arbroath can both get promoted and sustain a second tier club then a competently-run GMFC absolutely can. And when that is acheived then the club can expand its budget in line with revenue again, which is how a business is supposed to operate.

All of the supposed benefits of the Championship prize money currently go straight into the pockets of the glorified Herbalife salesmen we recruit every summer: none of it actually contributes to the club's growth because we do not turn a profit.

Edited May 1, 2021 by vikingTON

[Guest]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

All of the benefits of the Championship prize money go straight into the pockets of the glorified Herbalife salesmen we recruit every summer: none of it contributes to the club's growth. 

We invest significantly into our youth academy which we have found to be successful. Have you managed to provide a pathway for any international players recently? Our most recent ones include Morgan, McGinn and McLean. The transfer and development fees helped balance the books. That is the way forward for all teams in Scotland outside the arse cheeks. Even they are selling clubs. 

[GaryMc93]

Out of interest is Cameron Salkeld injured or just out of favour?

Seems like he's a decent height, bit of a headless chicken but tries hard which sounds exactly the type of player Hopkin will want for us at Ayr next season.

[vikingTON]

7 minutes ago, Yflab said:

We invest significantly into our youth academy which we have found to be successful. Have you managed to provide a pathway for any international players recently? Our most recent ones include Morgan, McGinn and McLean. The transfer and development fees helped balance the books. That is the way forward for all teams in Scotland outside the arse cheeks. Even they are selling clubs. 

One of the aims of the new fan ownership model is to provide a viable pathway for home-grown players, but I'm extremely sceptical that this is actually an investment that can pay off at Morton's level. The Project Brave reforms deliberately put the lion's share of external funding into the elite pathway, requiring facilities that simply are not needed/cannot be sustained in Inverclyde or indeed most other areas of the country. 

Focusing on youth development without some sugar daddy to build it up for us promises at best a spot at the second table IMO. I guess a test for this will be what we receive for Lewis Strapp who will almost certainly be off in the event of relegation. I expect a pittance which underlines that youth development is not the ATM that some people think. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by vikingTON

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, virginton said:

One of the aims of the new fan ownership model is to provide a viable pathway for home-grown players, but I'm extremely sceptical that this is actually an investment that can pay off at Morton's level. The Project Brave reforms deliberately put the lion's share of external funding into the elite pathway, requiring facilities that simply are not needed/cannot be sustained in Inverclyde or indeed most other areas of the country. 

Focusing on youth development without some sugar daddy to build it up for us promises at best a spot at the second table IMO. I guess a test for this will be what we receive for Lewis Strapp who will almost certainly be off in the event of relegation. I expect a pittance which underlines that youth development is not the ATM that some people think. 

I don’t agree with the criteria of Project Brave. Our club did not go down the Elite path initially because of the criteria we had to meet, but I believe that is changing now and we plan on moving onward s and upwards. 
 

Personally I’d far rather see us blood young players from our academy in a competitive league, rather spend hundreds of thousands on foreign journeymen. 
 

We live for the day when we can unearth another Lavety. We seem to produce high calibre midfielders whose surnames all seem to start with M. 

This season we have given debuts to midfielders Dylan Reid and Jay Henderson to complement other midfield academy graduates McAllister, Erhahon, MacPherson. That was after selling our regularly injured club captain Magennis for big bucks to Hibs with a sell on clause. We have just announced a new head of academy to add to the staff.

All this while we fans takeover the club on 27th July. The futures bright as long as we keep the academy going. 

[jagtastic]

F*ckin hell, I like an away day to Cappielow and I feel for Morton fans going through the shitey times just now... but you really are just a wee fanny.

Aye, you.

[JessieField]

Amazing to think that Brechin dropped from the Championship to bottom of Division 2 in just 3 seasons. Can Morton possibly do the same??

[SpoonTon]

10 hours ago, GaryMc93 said:

Out of interest is Cameron Salkeld injured or just out of favour?

Seems like he's a decent height, bit of a headless chicken but tries hard which sounds exactly the type of player Hopkin will want for us at Ayr next season.

Headless chicken, tries hard, abject lack of ability. With Orsi in the squad, we had already more than filled our quota of that. 

I'm not sure of the answer, though, I think he's out of favour but he's maybe just got lost somewhere. 

 

[Dunning1874]

11 hours ago, virginton said:

No, it just means matching outgoings to revenue like any other business has to do on an annual basis. By far the largest expense at a football club (as set out in the takeover document) is the first team budget which - oh look! - has been inefficiently squandered on a ridiculously large squad of utter shite and ringers who have never seen the light of day all season - all on 'full-time professional' deals that confer no competitive advantage at all on the park. Players who do nothing other than train and kick a football all week and yet can't stick it in the net when it matters, or trap the ball. 

So your smoking gun argument for the benefits of survival in fact sets out another advantage of rebuilding in a lower tier: finally ending our nonsense, bargain bin rummaging status in the full-time market out of necessity and recalibrating to what is actually sustainable and sensible. If Arbroath can both get promoted and sustain a second tier club then a competently-run GMFC absolutely can. And when that is acheived then the club can expand its budget in line with revenue again, which is how a business is supposed to operate.

All of the supposed benefits of the Championship prize money currently go straight into the pockets of the glorified Herbalife salesmen we recruit every summer: none of it actually contributes to the club's growth because we do not turn a profit.

Right, it is possible that after being relegated in a couple of weeks time we could 1. transition to part-time football, 2. win promotion at some point in the next three/four next seasons, 3. stay up, 4. transition back to full-time possibly via a hybrid setup, then 5. have a crack at being better than we are now a few years into MCT's ownership rather than them scrambling a bargain bin full-time Championship squad together this summer while they're beginning the process of overhauling the club off the park.

While all the above is possible if we get absolutely everything right immediately after over 20 years of being a complete binfire off the park, a far more likely path from relegation and step 1 is 2. Stay down for years showing no sign of a serious promotion challenge leading to 3. The size of the club shrinking through years of reduced revenue and fans walking away. Effectively following Airdrie's managed decline of the last decade, seriously harming our chances of ever being able to consolidate as a second tier club again.

Less likely than the Airdrie route but still more likely than actually leaving us in a better place than staying up is 2. trying to transition to part-time football while trying to restructure the club off the park at the same time turns into a disaster, 3. we make a bad managerial appointment and 4. we find ourselves right in another relegation battle, staring at successive relegations leading to 5. MCT lose credibility among a large portion of the support with some stopping their contributions. The Clyde route.

Yes, we're a bigger club with a bigger support than Clyde or Brechin so should be able to have a more competitive budget and avoid that humiliation, but it's just arrogance to dismiss the possibility entirely.

We hear this 'relegation could be a good thing for the club' rhetoric every time a club is in this position. People thinking it'll be a good thing to go and compete at the top end of a division rather than circling the drain in their current one, and the momentum from going down and winning can be carried into their return to the higher division. It rarely works out that way; see Falkirk fans making that argument in 2010. You're not just making a similar argument that it might be good on the pitch and fans are more likely to be on board as a result, you're arguing that it's somehow easier for a fan takeover to succeed in this scenario when the reality is that it makes it far more likely for the club to become unsustainable and MCT to fail.

The absolute best platform for MCT to hit the ground running and sucfessfully implement their plans for the club is to inherit a Championship club with the revenue that brings.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Dunning1874

[Dunning1874]

10 hours ago, GaryMc93 said:

Out of interest is Cameron Salkeld injured or just out of favour?

Seems like he's a decent height, bit of a headless chicken but tries hard which sounds exactly the type of player Hopkin will want for us at Ayr next season.

He came on as a sub in MacPherson's first game in charge and hasn't been seen since. The club don't tell us when players are injured so can't be sure, but I assumed he was just bombed out.

He's the epitome of a David Hopkin player. Tall, lots of energy, will run himself into the ground, you look at him and think he's a bit raw but with those physical attributes there might be a player in there that good coaching can bring out.

After two seasons we can confirm that he's not raw, he just has no ability whatsoever. No amount of coaching is going to make a him a player; he's an athlete, not a footballer.

[baba douche]

Get yourselves relegated, get some young players in, and enjoy winning a few games for a change.

Then get promoted straight away, and enjoy the new sense of hope for about a fortnight. 

Easy.

[GaryMc93]

42 minutes ago, SpoonTon said:

Headless chicken, tries hard, abject lack of ability. With Orsi in the squad, we had already more than filled our quota of that. 

I'm not sure of the answer, though, I think he's out of favour but he's maybe just got lost somewhere. 

18 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

He came on as a sub in MacPherson's first game in charge and hasn't been seen since. The club don't tell us when players are injured so can't be sure, but I assumed he was just bombed out.

He's the epitome of a David Hopkin player. Tall, lots of energy, will run himself into the ground, you look at him and think he's a bit raw but with those physical attributes there might be a player in there that good coaching can bring out.

After two seasons we can confirm that he's not raw, he just has no ability whatsoever. No amount of coaching is going to make a him a player; he's an athlete, not a footballer.

Cheers so potentially signing a pre contract with a relegation rival might be the answer. 

A quick trawl through Ayr United twitter followers shows a couple of Salkeld's family have followed the club recently. This season I managed to work out 5-6 of our squad before it was announced by checking it so could be the first new signing predicted already.

He's always got a chance with our fanbase considering half hated Chris Aitken but loved Dean Keenan cause he ran about a lot.   

[SpoonTon]

54 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

He came on as a sub in MacPherson's first game in charge and hasn't been seen since. The club don't tell us when players are injured so can't be sure, but I assumed he was just bombed out.

He's the epitome of a David Hopkin player. Tall, lots of energy, will run himself into the ground, you look at him and think he's a bit raw but with those physical attributes there might be a player in there that good coaching can bring out.

After two seasons we can confirm that he's not raw, he just has no ability whatsoever. No amount of coaching is going to make a him a player; he's an athlete, not a footballer.

 

16 minutes ago, GaryMc93 said:

Cheers so potentially signing a pre contract with a relegation rival might be the answer. 

A quick trawl through Ayr United twitter followers shows a couple of Salkeld's family have followed the club recently. This season I managed to work out 5-6 of our squad before it was announced by checking it so could be the first new signing predicted already.

He's always got a chance with our fanbase considering half hated Chris Aitken but loved Dean Keenan cause he ran about a lot.   

Just to add to what Dunning says about him being an athlete rather than a player. I have no idea what position is meant to be his strongest. He came as a forward, maybe a winger, who can also play full back or wing back, and he's played in all those roles for us. He has the strength and running to play in all of those roles, but he doesn't have the footballing ability to play in any of them.