No Man's Sky

[XIII]

Haha

I see Sean Murray made a few tweets last week saying thst nms was a mistake then he deleted them and said it want him and that he was hacked... Was probably Fide

[Homer Thompson]

On 01/11/2016 at 08:48, Tamdunk said:

http://i.imgur.com/64F4vRP.gifv

 

This may be the best gif I've ever seen, sadly it's a video so I can't embed.

If I could give you more than one greenie for that I would 

[djchapsticks]

So was it a deliberate scam by someone who knew he couldn't deliver on his promises or a developer's gub writing cheques that his arse couldn't cash?

I was inclined to agree with fide on one point. I thought that given the scope, ambition and hype, NMS couldn't fail as at the very least it would become a game ahead of it's time, leave a lasting legacy and even if not well executed, lauded in years to come for it's ambition. 

Well, turns out it was a fuckupable project after all and Sean Murray's and NMS's legacy is that no one will even consider touching this formula again for a very long time for fear of it become a career ender.

Edited November 5, 2016 by djchapsticks

[Gaz]

11 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

So was it a deliberate scam by someone who knew he couldn't deliver on his promises or a developer's gub writing cheques that his arse couldn't cash?

I was inclined to agree with fide on one point. I thought that given the scope, ambition and hype, NMS couldn't fail as at the very least it would become a game ahead of it's time, leave a lasting legacy and even if not well executed, lauded in years to come for it's ambition. 

Well, turns out it was a fuckupable project after all and Sean Murray's and NMS's legacy is that no one will even consider touching this formula again for a very long time for fear of it become a career ender.

A bit of both, I think.

Your last point is spot-on. I said on the MGS thread a few months back that if MGS2 had been released now, in the days of Reddit and 4Chan, and we'd had the bait-and-switch about playing the vast majority of the game with a whiny bitch instead of Solid Snake, MGS would have been killed as a series and never would have recovered.

Hello Games are finished. No-one will touch them again.

[Gaz]

The reason I think that it partly was a scam is that it crammed *just* enough stuff into the first three hours to make you think that they had delivered. It's only when you get past that period that you realise it's the same repetitive, boring tasks again, and again, and again. By that time it's too late to claim a refund from most places, so they're laughing all the way to the bank.

[Miguel Sanchez]

You can embed imgur gifs if you take the v off the .gifv at the end of the link. It's worth it for "the ring came off my Monster can" alone

[forameus]

On 11/5/2016 at 07:55, djchapsticks said:

So was it a deliberate scam by someone who knew he couldn't deliver on his promises or a developer's gub writing cheques that his arse couldn't cash?

I was inclined to agree with fide on one point. I thought that given the scope, ambition and hype, NMS couldn't fail as at the very least it would become a game ahead of it's time, leave a lasting legacy and even if not well executed, lauded in years to come for it's ambition. 

Well, turns out it was a fuckupable project after all and Sean Murray's and NMS's legacy is that no one will even consider touching this formula again for a very long time for fear of it become a career ender.

The latter in your question.  They put a developer out in front of the cameras because he had a good gimmick, and they rode him all the way into the ground.  He was a rabbit in the headlights and just kept promising thing after thing.  There's a small chance there's something machiavellian about it all, but he looked to me like someone who genuinely believed in the product, and was just spouting every idea that made it onto the long-list.  

Then it gets closer to release, and they've not got close to all the things he's promised.  They delayed once and got death threats.  I honestly believe that if they didn't have a huge publisher behind them, they might have delayed further.  But instead they released, and the shit storm picked up.  I feel sorry for the guy.  I've always said he should never have been put/put himself in that position.  It should've been a PR guy in there with a message, not a developer who looks like he's not comfortable at all in front of a camera.

Don't agree at all with your last part.  Although it depends on what you mean by "formula".  If you mean the type of game it was, then they'd be mental not to.  Look at how much excitement the concept shook up.  If someone can essentially make the NMS that was hyped, it's a licence to print money.  Of course, if the "formula" you speak of is now Sean Murray handled things, then absolutely, no-one should touch that.

On 11/5/2016 at 19:19, Gaz said:

The reason I think that it partly was a scam is that it crammed *just* enough stuff into the first three hours to make you think that they had delivered. It's only when you get past that period that you realise it's the same repetitive, boring tasks again, and again, and again. By that time it's too late to claim a refund from most places, so they're laughing all the way to the bank.

Think that's a bit far calling it a scam.  It's not quite as blatant, but you can say pretty much the same as bolded about a lot of games.  Fallout 4 springs to mind.  Obviously  that's a bit of a rubbish comparison, as obviously FO4 is a much better game, but to call it a scam just because it was repetitive is a bit much.

[NotThePars]

Aye Bethesda have the same obsession with trying to create an 'endless' game they just have the sense to put some content and story in the game.

[Gaz]

4 hours ago, forameus said:

The latter in your question.  They put a developer out in front of the cameras because he had a good gimmick, and they rode him all the way into the ground.  He was a rabbit in the headlights and just kept promising thing after thing.  There's a small chance there's something machiavellian about it all, but he looked to me like someone who genuinely believed in the product, and was just spouting every idea that made it onto the long-list.  

Then it gets closer to release, and they've not got close to all the things he's promised.  They delayed once and got death threats.  I honestly believe that if they didn't have a huge publisher behind them, they might have delayed further.  But instead they released, and the shit storm picked up.  I feel sorry for the guy.  I've always said he should never have been put/put himself in that position.  It should've been a PR guy in there with a message, not a developer who looks like he's not comfortable at all in front of a camera.

Don't agree at all with your last part.  Although it depends on what you mean by "formula".  If you mean the type of game it was, then they'd be mental not to.  Look at how much excitement the concept shook up.  If someone can essentially make the NMS that was hyped, it's a licence to print money.  Of course, if the "formula" you speak of is now Sean Murray handled things, then absolutely, no-one should touch that.

Think that's a bit far calling it a scam.  It's not quite as blatant, but you can say pretty much the same as bolded about a lot of games.  Fallout 4 springs to mind.  Obviously  that's a bit of a rubbish comparison, as obviously FO4 is a much better game, but to call it a scam just because it was repetitive is a bit much.

The problem is that Murray himself could have calmed a lot of the furore down by coming out and talking after the game. "Look guys, we had to release it without all the features we wanted, but we're working on them." Instead there has been complete radio silence. The only time anyone's had any contact from Murray or Hello Games over the past two-and-a-half months have been a Tweet saying that "No Man's Sky was a mistake", which they then said had been a hack and that they were instead binge-watching Mr Robot. That's mental stuff.

[forameus]

3 hours ago, NotThePars said:

Aye Bethesda have the same obsession with trying to create an 'endless' game they just have the sense to put some content and story in the game.

Yeah, like I said, it isn't the greatest comparison, but if we're going purely by the repetitive nature of things after an initial period of time, then there's a lot of guilty parties.

5 minutes ago, Gaz said:

The problem is that Murray himself could have calmed a lot of the furore down by coming out and talking after the game. "Look guys, we had to release it without all the features we wanted, but we're working on them." Instead there has been complete radio silence. The only time anyone's had any contact from Murray or Hello Games over the past two-and-a-half months have been a Tweet saying that "No Man's Sky was a mistake", which they then said had been a hack and that they were instead binge-watching Mr Robot. That's mental stuff.

That's fair enough.  I imagine he pretty much shat himself though.  He drove himself off a cliff and instead of fronting up, he's stuck his head in the sand.  To give him one little thing, the whole hype culture built up around the game (which admittedly he was very much responsible for fostering, directly or otherwise) meant that there wasn't going to be the possibility of just fronting up.  They got death threats for a perfectly normal delay. 

It's the scam part I disagree with.  Just think he's fucked up rather than anything malicious.  

[EdgarusQPFC]

4 hours ago, forameus said:

Don't agree at all with your last part.  Although it depends on what you mean by "formula".  If you mean the type of game it was, then they'd be mental not to.  Look at how much excitement the concept shook up.  If someone can essentially make the NMS that was hyped, it's a licence to print money.  Of course, if the "formula" you speak of is now Sean Murray handled things, then absolutely, no-one should touch that.

Think that's a bit far calling it a scam.  It's not quite as blatant, but you can say pretty much the same as bolded about a lot of games.  Fallout 4 springs to mind.  Obviously  that's a bit of a rubbish comparison, as obviously FO4 is a much better game, but to call it a scam just because it was repetitive is a bit much.

Thing is, if you promise something that you have no chance in hell of delivering then charge people full price for it, then after release basically disappear, then calling it a scam is perfectly justified.

I think after NMS and the ridiculous cash grab that is star citizen, people will be vastly more reluctant to invest time or money into these kinda games. I love this genre of game but i've purchased neither of the above games as i've been burned far too many times with videogames that it has made me a heavy cynic 

[EdgarusQPFC]

4 hours ago, NotThePars said:

Aye Bethesda have the same obsession with trying to create an 'endless' game they just have the sense to put some content and story in the game.

Endless probably isnt the best description, Bethesda rely heavily on "Organic" gameplay, shit that just happens while your wandering about, be it a Dragon attacking a mudcrab, or ending up in the middle of a raider battle against a deathclaw. I tend to love games with a heavy emphasis on non scripted stuff

[forameus]

45 minutes ago, EdgarusQPFC said:

Thing is, if you promise something that you have no chance in hell of delivering then charge people full price for it, then after release basically disappear, then calling it a scam is perfectly justified.

I think after NMS and the ridiculous cash grab that is star citizen, people will be vastly more reluctant to invest time or money into these kinda games. I love this genre of game but i've purchased neither of the above games as i've been burned far too many times with videogames that it has made me a heavy cynic 

That's the key part.  At the point he promised them, did he think that was the case?  That's where we probably disagree - personally I think he fully believed in the project to the point where he believed things that ended up not being implemented.  To each their own though.

To be honest, I still think I probably got my money's worth out of the game, on a pure hours basis.  I'd say I enjoyed most of it.  It could have been a million times better though.

42 minutes ago, EdgarusQPFC said:

Endless probably isnt the best description, Bethesda rely heavily on "Organic" gameplay, shit that just happens while your wandering about, be it a Dragon attacking a mudcrab, or ending up in the middle of a raider battle against a deathclaw. I tend to love games with a heavy emphasis on non scripted stuff

Bethesda use the "radiant quest" stuff, started with Skyrim.  Basically the ones where some basic NPC tells you to go clear out x, or go kill y.  Then they populate that location with things and have you go do something.  In that sense, they are endless, and they marketed it as such particularly with Skyrim.  It sounded great on paper, but once you actually get down to doing these endless quests, they're incredibly repetitive.  But then they're supposed to be, and the world they inhabit is much, much more pleasing than the one in NMS.

[EdgarusQPFC]

22 minutes ago, forameus said:

That's the key part.  At the point he promised them, did he think that was the case?  That's where we probably disagree - personally I think he fully believed in the project to the point where he believed things that ended up not being implemented.  To each their own though.

To be honest, I still think I probably got my money's worth out of the game, on a pure hours basis.  I'd say I enjoyed most of it.  It could have been a million times better though.

Bethesda use the "radiant quest" stuff, started with Skyrim.  Basically the ones where some basic NPC tells you to go clear out x, or go kill y.  Then they populate that location with things and have you go do something.  In that sense, they are endless, and they marketed it as such particularly with Skyrim.  It sounded great on paper, but once you actually get down to doing these endless quests, they're incredibly repetitive.  But then they're supposed to be, and the world they inhabit is much, much more pleasing than the one in NMS.

I'd probably be much less critical of Sean Murray if he would just come out and admit he fucked up and apologized. 

Radiant quests are simply there for leveling/gold, entirely optional. 

The side quests in Skyrim were massively superior to the main quest lines. I loved that you could just read a random book about a infamous adventurer (red eagle) then decide to find his tomb

[mrcat1990]

To be honest I think Murray's fucked even if he does apologise and with a very large pitchforked mob baying for his head, I'm not surprised he's lying probably in his bedroom with covers over his head.

[EdgarusQPFC]

8 minutes ago, mrcat1990 said:

To be honest I think Murray's fucked even if he does apologise and with a very large pitchforked mob baying for his head, I'm not surprised he's lying probably in his bedroom with covers over his head.

It's actually very rare for any game developer to give a honest apology, usually you just get the corporate BS kinda one. If he were to make a video just admitting he let the hype get to his head and that he genuinely plan's on delivering on his promises if people will be patient with him i think that would go a long way. This strategy of saying f**k all is just making things worse. 

[NotThePars]

16 minutes ago, EdgarusQPFC said:

I'd probably be much less critical of Sean Murray if he would just come out and admit he fucked up and apologized. 

Radiant quests are simply there for leveling/gold, entirely optional. 

The side quests in Skyrim were massively superior to the main quest lines. I loved that you could just read a random book about a infamous adventurer (red eagle) then decide to find his tomb

 

He's talking about the pure "go here get that" quests. The Brotherhood of Steel side quests for example or the settlement relief ones in Fallout 4. They're put in so you can never technically complete the game but IMO it means sacrificing a lot of genuinely interesting storytelling to be able to state that their game can go on forever. It helps that Fallout's world can be fun as hell to run around in but there's a reason why I haven't played it in months. It gets dull, repetitive and meaningless to play.

[forameus]

22 minutes ago, EdgarusQPFC said:

I'd probably be much less critical of Sean Murray if he would just come out and admit he fucked up and apologized.

 

15 minutes ago, mrcat1990 said:

To be honest I think Murray's fucked even if he does apologise and with a very large pitchforked mob baying for his head, I'm not surprised he's lying probably in his bedroom with covers over his head.

This.  Sensible people would probably be fine with him coming out and saying he'd fucked up.  I'm with you, Edgarus, it'd be refreshing to see it happen, and probably grab him back a lot of favour.

But then there's the crowd that gave him death threats for announcing a one month delay.  A fucking delay.  What would they do if he came out and did a Billy Clinton?  

[EdgarusQPFC]

So many people make death threats for the most trivial of things, it's so common now that it's actually not that alarming. Which is really disturbing

[one m in Motherwell]

This.  Sensible people would probably be fine with him coming out and saying he'd fucked up.  I'm with you, Edgarus, it'd be refreshing to see it happen, and probably grab him back a lot of favour.

But then there's the crowd that gave him death threats for announcing a one month delay.  A fucking delay.  What would they do if he came out and did a Billy Clinton?  

It wasn't even him who announced the delay either, was it not a games journalist who broke that story? Either way, death threats over games is fucking pathetic. Although entirely expected given the high zoomer quotient of games fans.