Stenhousemuir FC - The Warriors - The 2023/24 Thread

[BinoBalls]

Stinpotmuir FC. 

Quite an impressive oversight. Got to feel for the player though, hope he gets a move or doesn’t spend the season on the bench at Cowden. 

To be fair to Stenny this was just someone making a (bad) mistake, shit happens sometimes. They’ll have learned their lesson. Life moves on and they’ll still be challenging for promotion. 

[the_bully_wee]

19 minutes ago, The Minertaur said:

Asking for compensation that we are entitled to isn't holding the player to ransom. Cowden have done exactly what every other club in the world would do.

It's nice to think that clubs just let their young players leave for nothing to further their career but that's not the reality us small clubs live in. Why should the club not offer him a contract when he's been involved in most league games and we're losing Talbot?

I totally agree with you, and whatever his wage is then Bollan will have deemed him worth being part of next season's squad (back-up or not) for that outlay and there can be no blame attached to him or Cowdenbeath for tabling that new deal. Ultimately, to be able to make your mind up definitively on this, you'd have to be privy to the numbers - they'll be known to a fair few folk I'm sure, so hopefully they come out eventually and blaming, judgemental elbows can be pointed at either side. Much depends on Swann's own feelings, too - would he have been happy to sign on again if he wasn't guaranteed more game-time, or would he have wanted to move on in any scenario? That's a pretty important factor, IMO.

In my unbiased opinion, I think with all known factors taken into consideration, it would be entirely reasonable for any compensation to amount to a few thousand, certainly no more than about five; not a complete pittance, but not a sizeable fee either and probably akin to the approximate value of the player. If Cowdenbeath have asked for much more than that - knowing that Swann isn't happy at the club and wouldn't have wanted to remain there - then I think it's more than a bit shite of them to effectively deny him a positive move which would see him starting more regularly and playing more football than he has done in the past couple of years. Conversely, if Stenhousemuir have nuked the deal because they didn't want to compensate Cowdenbeath even a little for their ten-year development of Swann, then that is more than a bit shite on their part. As I've said, I can only sympathise with the boy, who is now ostensibly stuck with a club which he rejected in favour of another - a nightmarish situation for him. 

[1320Lichtie]

I addressed that point in a previous post and, without knowing the figures involved, it's fair to say that this situation constitutes either extreme cheapness from Stenhousemuir (a few thousand equates to about £50/week out of your budget), or piss-taking out-pricing from Cowdenbeath. If it's the case that Stenhousemuir have been tight b*****ds then Cowdenbeath are, of course, entirely blameless here and well within their rights to act how they have.
Hopefully Swann will either be allowed to move on for a sensible sum or be given the opportunity to establish himself as a starter at Cowdenbeath, because it would be a shame if his career was held back by this sorry episode. It's hard to imagine that Bollan will see him as his first choice, even if he does stay, whereas it looked for all the world as though he was McMenamin's main man for the left-back/left-wing-back slot at Stenny. 

Cowdenbeath should be looking to get as high a compensation figure as possible, like any other well run professional football club. It's not their fault Stenny have made a c**t of it and not realised they'd be due a fee signing him.

[the_bully_wee]

7 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Cowdenbeath should be looking to get as high a compensation figure as possible, like any other well run professional football club. It's not their fault Stenny have made a c**t of it and not realised they'd be due a fee signing him.

 

Any "well-run professional football club" also wouldn't want to risk having a very unhappy player on its books, or tarnishing its reputation among (young) players, for the sake of making a quick buck. Stenny could well have realised a fee was due and been scared off by an excessively high compensation demand, but like I've said, it's impossible to definitively call it either way without knowing the numbers.

[Christophe]

2 hours ago, Blue Oktober said:

I can't speak for his desire to remain or not  but you really should check the facts in terms of whether under contract or not  champ ;-/

I'll just wait here for you to furnish me with these contract details he's currently under then, shall I?... 

[Neilly]

1 hour ago, big al said:

What an absolute gang stenny are. 

And their ringleader Neilly, the top cretin has vanished when the heat is on.

Sad it’s come to this, highlights one of the reasons I struggle with Bollan at the helm. It’s down to him this situation has arisen.

Vanished? I was the first one to criticise if you open your eyes ya goon.

I'll have a pint in way of apology Large Alan.

[PELE]

3 hours ago, the_bully_wee said:

You'd be justified in asking for more money if he was demonstrably a first-choice player, rather than a second or third choice in his position within a poor side. I know he's popular among the support, but it's pretty obvious that Bollan doesn't rate him particularly highly, otherwise Blair Malcolm wouldn't be playing out of position to keep him on the bench. He wouldn't have played nearly as much this season if Talbot was fit, and as such any compensation should be minimal. It's a shame to see Cowdenbeath holding the player ransom given the contribution he's made to your club and the squad status he's had to endure. 

Maybe part of the problem. Swann is not a left back. He should be left mid. He is poor in defence. Far better in an attacking role.

[1320Lichtie]

Any "well-run professional football club" also wouldn't want to risk having a very unhappy player on its books, or tarnishing its reputation among (young) players, for the sake of making a quick buck. Stenny could well have realised a fee was due and been scared off by an excessively high compensation demand, but like I've said, it's impossible to definitively call it either way without knowing the numbers.

How do you know he's going to be very unhappy now maybe he liked Cowden in the first place [emoji23]

And it's not tarnished Cowdens reputation with young players ffs. Get in the real world, this'll be forgotten about in a week and any young person with a sensible mature head on them will understand fully what's happened here.

Cowden certainly aren't to blame

[Moonglum25]

This is very embarrassing for the club. We are stating that we have a bigger budget than last year and we made a few bob from the cup ties so there is obviously money there.  What we do not know is the extent of compensation that Cowdenbeath want and until that figure is known (but unlikely as it will probably not be made public) it is very hard to comment.    Surely someone must have checked if compenation was due prior to signing.

I also fear what this will do to attracting other players to the club. Any other left back that comes in knows he was not first choice for the role.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Moonglum25

[NELLY]

21 minutes ago, Moonglum25 said:

This is very embarrassing for the club. We are stating that we have a bigger budget than last year and we made a few bob from the cup ties so there is obviously money there.  What we do not know is the extent of compensation that Cowdenbeath want and until that figure is known (but unlikely as it will probably not be made public) it is very hard to comment.    Surely someone must have checked if compenation was due prior to signing.

I also fear what this will do to attracting other players to the club. Any other left back that comes in knows he was not first choice for the role.

Its part time football pal. I dont think players will give a flying hoot that they werent first choice to come in..

As for the compensation. I dont know figures and we are within our rights not to let that figure out in public domain. I would grasp we were pushing for £15-20k with negotiation probably not letting him go for less than £10k

Perhaps steep but ball is in our court really unless they take it to tribunal - not sure the laws of this to be honest - im thinking Lewis Ferguson e.g aberdeen/hamilton. Aberdeen won in the end going to tribunal im pretty sure.

Even though he wasnt a regular last year I find that kinda irrelevant. Bollan could leave within 10 games and he is back being a key player for us with someone else. Its football - it happens. The club supported Harvey from a young age. He has developed well even under Bollan his defensive side isnt as bad as some folk are saying it got way better under Bollan. He is just not aggressive or high tempo enough I dont think for Bollan.

[beaver1]

The rules are the rules and it appears that we have made a balls up, but I am not sure that the development fee rule was there for players moving from one league 2, part time team to another. It ends up in situations like this. Clubs can't afford to pay any transfer fee (and certainly not £10k) so they will just sign free agents, which means, unless Cowden release Swann he won't get another gig at this level.

Different story if he is moving up the ladder; but he isn't and doesn't sound like he is ever likely to. Perhaps an amicable solution would be for Cowden to let him go but on the proviso they get a share of any future transfer fee, should he turn out to be a superstar. This surely applies to any player in this situation not just Swann. 

[The Minertaur]

What happens if Swann rejects the contract we have offered him and just lets his contract expire?  Could he then sign for Stenny anyway?

[Muzza81]

30 minutes ago, beaver1 said:

Different story if he is moving up the ladder; but he isn't and doesn't sound like he is ever likely to. Perhaps an amicable solution would be for Cowden to let him go but on the proviso they get a share of any future transfer fee, should he turn out to be a superstar. This surely applies to any player in this situation not just Swann. 

This is nice, in theory, but the reality is the chances of you getting a fee for Swann are close to zero. I assume he would sign a 1 year deal with you lot and if he was great another club would sign him on a PCA come January.  If you were to get cash for him it would be, what, £10k so we would really want at least 50% of any future potential fee to make it worthwhile.

I hope we come to an agreement.

[Muzza81]

2 minutes ago, The Minertaur said:

What happens if Swann rejects the contract we have offered him and just lets his contract expire?  Could he then sign for Stenny anyway?

We would still be entitled to a fee.

[Moonglum25]

37 minutes ago, Muzza81 said:

We would still be entitled to a fee.

How come?  Surely if his contract expires and he decides not to resign for Cowden how would you be entitled to a fee?

[Jack Burton]

How come?  Surely if his contract expires and he decides not to resign for Cowden how would you be entitled to a fee?

A development fee is payable for any players under 24 providing that Cowdenbeath offered Swann a contract at least equal to his current terms. You wouldnt have to pay the fee if he was released or offered a contract by Cowdenbeath on lesser terms.

Swann isn't the first player to have ended up in this situation and either having to resign at his current club or sign on as an amateur elsewhere.

[Muzza81]

Because that is what the rules dictate, surely. Why did Aberdeen pay Hamilton a fee for Ferguson when they could have waited a couple of weeks till his contact expires and get him for free?

It is a development fee, we are due it if he signs for a club regardless of whether he is under contact or not. In reality NO ONE can sign for another club while under contract at another club,

[NELLY]

21 minutes ago, Muzza81 said:

Because that is what the rules dictate, surely. Why did Aberdeen pay Hamilton a fee for Ferguson when they could have waited a couple of weeks till his contact expires and get him for free?

It is a development fee, we are due it if he signs for a club regardless of whether he is under contact or not. In reality NO ONE can sign for another club while under contract at another club,

Which is why its even funnier Stenny didnt know this. Complete trumpets. Even my grandad would know this rule.

[Neilly]

55 minutes ago, NELLY said:

Which is why its even funnier Stenny didnt know this. Complete trumpets. Even my grandad would know this rule.

Exactly. To me this is nothing new and I am at a complete loss how absolutely no one at the club would have known this.

I thought the chairman's end of season review was brilliant on the website but when you comment on a "significant increase" in the players budget Cowden ain't just going to pass Swann over for free either. 

I hope it works out for Swann somehow and he doesn't just rot away on Cowden's bench next season but I don't see the alternative just now if there is no higher level teams interested in him.

[NELLY]

11 minutes ago, Neilly said:

Exactly. To me this is nothing new and I am at a complete loss how absolutely no one at the club would have known this.

I thought the chairman's end of season review was brilliant on the website but when you comment on a "significant increase" in the players budget Cowden ain't just going to pass Swann over for free either. 

I hope it works out for Swann somehow and he doesn't just rot away on Cowden's bench next season but I don't see the alternative just now if there is no higher level teams interested in him.

He wont rot away. I think he will simply be a player on the bench. He can play 2 positions and is all left sided. He did get game time last year so its not like he is completely out in the cold.

Has pre-season to earn his place.