Stenhousemuir FC - The Warriors - The 2023/24 Thread

[Vimto90]

Obviously I didn’t know but the response was silly. Just another smart arse.

Glad you have seen how you came across.

[Aberdeen Cowden]

35 minutes ago, Vimto90 said:

41 minutes ago, Aberdeen Cowden said:

Obviously I didn’t know but the response was silly. Just another smart arse.

Glad you have seen how you came across.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/7042804/celtic-sutton-clubs-cox-alleged-suicide-taunt/
 

Plenty of support for Coxy.

[Vimto90]

Maybe the fella with the glasses could play a part in getting the matter resolved. Seems to be defending Cox for receiving the yellow card so has hopefully heard what's happened.

[Hedgecutter]

7 hours ago, Left Back said:

The BBC's match report page doesn't show Cox as having received a yellow card but Sky shows him as being booked after 29 minutes.

[CowdenPhil]

The tragedy and devastation of a suicide is immense. It's shocking & horrific and it leaves you numb. On average a suicide can affect & impact the lives of 135 people according to a recent study from a US university. 

If what's been said by one human being to another human being about a suicide attempt is proven, it leaves me speechless & disappointed.  

Calm heads need to prevail now and we need to see how the SFA & the clubs concerned handle the situation. Let's hope something good comes out of this sad & unsavoury episode in the game at our level & we start putting in serious measures to look after our players mental & physical health & put an end to incidents like this & others.

It's just a game at the end of the day and it should be fun but at times like these, it's grim

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by CowdenPhil
spelling

[gaswork]

If Cox was acting like an arse - when he wasn’t even playing - at the side of park and abusing and antagonising a guy for his past and then when the guy does the same to him he runs away at half time and posts a video to social media then people can draw their own conclusions. 

Exactly!

[big al]

11 hours ago, CowdenPhil said:

The tragedy and devastation of a suicide is immense. It's shocking & horrific and it leaves you numb. On average a suicide can affect & impact the lives of 135 people according to a recent study from a US university. 

If what's been said by one human being to another human being about a suicide attempt is proven, it leaves me speechless & disappointed.  

Calm heads need to prevail now and we need to see how the SFA & the clubs concerned handle the situation. Let's hope something good comes out of this sad & unsavoury episode in the game at our level & we start putting in serious measures to look after our players mental & physical health & put an end to incidents like this & others.

It's just a game at the end of the day and it should be fun but at times like these, it's grim

 

It is just a game Phil.

It’s sad this has happened, but there’s always 2 sides to every story, and we have only heard 1.

From reports it seems there was a fair bit of verbals between the players during the first half, and some kind of claim from  the Stenny side that Cox was dishing out abuse. 
I wasn’t keen on Cox as a player at Cowden, due to the fact his game was styled around a 1980s junior hard man, but without the ability to put in the crunching tackles. I’m afraid he isn’t really suited to professional football, and the best thing for him would be to retire. 
Rarely saw Cox in a game where he wasn’t involved in some kind of needle, and he has a game based on pumping iron and aggression. 
Used to call him Davy the dodgem as he was always bouncing into folk, like he was hoping to provoke a reaction. 
 

Not saying he was always like that, maybe when he was younger and less dumbbell obsessed he was more about the actual football.

Genuinely hope he finds happiness, but can’t help but feel that would be away from football. 

[Christophe]

A fairly sizeable contradiction in the Cox interview in the Daily Record today in which he insists fellow AR subs heard the abuse he received from Tiffoney. As compared with statement from the club the other night that no-one knew what had happened, or why he had left the ground and had they known they would have not come out for the second half.

Which was it? 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Christophe

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

On 30/04/2021 at 10:45, AlanCamelonfan said:

It would be considered a hate crime

That post is a hate crime. 

[19QOS19]

I'm not 'down' with all these modern terms and think I could name on one hand the amount if times I've actually used them. But by f**k there's a helluva victim blaming going on in here. Have a fucking word with yourselves.

[Vimto90]

I'm not 'down' with all these modern terms and think I could name on one hand the amount if times I've actually used them. But by f**k there's a helluva victim blaming going on in here. Have a fucking word with yourselves.

Could you explain why you think there is victim blaming?

Is it the fact a few people have said cox goes out his way to cause trouble? Well that's a fact. It doesn't condone having vile things said to him regarding his mental health. It does though for me personally give some sort of strange understanding as to why someone would maybe flip and say something terrible, doesn't make it right but it will happen.

I and probably half the population have suffered with mental health. I don't however go out my way to antagonize people and hurt them. He does and if you keep doing that you will encounter some horrible people who will attack you personally if they have ammo to use.

It is not right, let's be clear. IT IS NOT RIGHT.

The situations I have described are totally separate from some weapon going out their way to say vile things to people, these people are a dreg on society.

[Jaydee]

A fairly sizeable contradiction in the Cox interview in the Daily Record today in which he insists fellow AR subs heard the abuse he received from Tiffoney. As compared with statement from the club the other night that no-one knew what had happened, or why he had left the ground and had they known they would have not come out for the second half.
Which was it? 

Both!

So, you might not be aware that in these COVID times the players are split across (at Stenny) 3 changing rooms and a shower area, so the first team players didn’t see Coxy come in at half time. The subs who did hear it were out on the park ‘warming up’ or hitting shots at the sub goalie (don’t know didn’t see them). Also not sure the statement you’re referring to was the official statement but rather our media guy who spoke to a couple of the players who were playing and said they had no idea what was said.

So just to clear it up, no contradiction [emoji1360]

[19QOS19]

Could you explain why you think there is victim blaming?

Is it the fact a few people have said cox goes out his way to cause trouble? Well that's a fact. It doesn't condone having vile things said to him regarding his mental health. It does though for me personally give some sort of strange understanding as to why someone would maybe flip and say something terrible, doesn't make it right but it will happen.

I and probably half the population have suffered with mental health. I don't however go out my way to antagonize people and hurt them. He does and if you keep doing that you will encounter some horrible people who will attack you personally if they have ammo to use.

It is not right, let's be clear. IT IS NOT RIGHT.

The situations I have described are totally separate from some weapon going out their way to say vile things to people, these people are a dreg on society.

I don't "think" there is, I'm saying there is. You've literally done exactly that in your second paragraph.

[big al]

17 hours ago, Vimto90 said:

Could you explain why you think there is victim blaming?

Is it the fact a few people have said cox goes out his way to cause trouble? Well that's a fact. It doesn't condone having vile things said to him regarding his mental health. It does though for me personally give some sort of strange understanding as to why someone would maybe flip and say something terrible, doesn't make it right but it will happen.

I and probably half the population have suffered with mental health. I don't however go out my way to antagonize people and hurt them. He does and if you keep doing that you will encounter some horrible people who will attack you personally if they have ammo to use.

It is not right, let's be clear. IT IS NOT RIGHT.

The situations I have described are totally separate from some weapon going out their way to say vile things to people, these people are a dreg on society.

Spot on

[The Moonster]

On 01/05/2021 at 17:56, Vimto90 said:

I and probably half the population have suffered with mental health. I don't however go out my way to antagonize people and hurt them. He does and if you keep doing that you will encounter some horrible people who will attack you personally if they have ammo to use.

This is victim blaming. You say "ITS NOT RIGHT" after it doesn't matter. You're throwing this out there as a justification for Tiffoney's alleged actions. It's pointless and unnecessary.

[Francesc Fabregas]

On 30/04/2021 at 16:50, Midnight Express said:

He was transferred mate, Forfar paid a fee for him but never heard what the deal was. 

Quite a few ex warriors at Forfar now. 

Andy Munro had agreed to join Forfar Athletic at the end of the season when his contract expired. The club didn't feel it was anyone's best interest if he remained at Ochilview until then, so they brokered a deal to sell him to the Loons six months early.

That transfer fee was subsequently reinvested in bringing in Adam Corbett from the Spartans.

[greendot]

On 29/04/2021 at 22:59, an86 said:

This should be a watershed moment. Nobody's opinion about David Cox as a player or guy matters here. You can separate that quite easily from the issue of singling him out because of his mental health. Call him a p***k, a w****r or anything you'd call any other player. To bring a life or death issue, and that's exactly what this is, into it, is not on. 

I think there's an element of society not giving parity of esteem to mental health, and a lack of understanding and education around it, that maybe makes folk think this acceptable. When you think of the horrific consequences of the levels of mental health issues, particularly in young guys, is it really an awful lot different from making a jibe about cancer or another serious illness? Imagine how that would go down. 

Young men are a massive demographic within football. They're also the biggest sufferers of mental health issues and the number of deaths that occur as a result is quite, quite horrific. There has to be zero tolerance of this. 

The game can act as a force for good, a vehicle for education and changes in attitude. Not overnight, but it can. This might seem like hyperbole, but it really is as serious as life and death at times. Words matter. The era of "get up and hit them back" and "sticks and stones" is gone. It's time to take a stand. 

 

Since reading this I've never quite got why the post was appreciated so much.  I've highlighted a couple of areas which smack of hypocrisy and the lack of understanding and education that an86 himself mentions.

 

An extract from Minds Website

Quote

What causes them?

Mental health problems can have a wide range of causes. It's likely that for many people there is a complicated combination of factors – although different people may be more deeply affected by certain things than others.

For example, the following factors could potentially result in a period of poor mental health:

• childhood abuse, trauma, or neglect
• social isolation or loneliness
• experiencing discrimination and stigma
• social disadvantage, poverty or debt
• bereavement (losing someone close to you)
• severe or long-term stress
• having a long-term physical health condition
• unemployment or losing your job
• homelessness or poor housing
• being a long-term carer for someone
• drug and alcohol misuse
• domestic violence, bullying or other abuse as an adult
• significant trauma as an adult, such as military combat, being involved in a serious incident in which you feared for your life, or being the victim of a violent crime
• physical causes – for example, a head injury or a neurological condition such as epilepsy can have an impact on your behaviour and mood. (It's important to rule out potential physical causes before seeking further treatment for a mental health problem).

Although lifestyle factors including work, diet, drugs and lack of sleep can all affect your mental health, if you experience a mental health problem there are usually other factors as well.

 

https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/mental-health-problems-introduction/causes/

 

Whilst its well documented with regards to David Cox's issues and other footballers / celebritites (social media blackout this weekend past about online abuse) you seem to fail to grasp the concept that as soon as you are continually abused verbally, it will take it's tole on your mental health.  Something which is all too apparent in football but is deemed acceptable cos it's 'banter', 'if they can't take it then don't dish it out' mentality', 'just a bit of fun' etc where in reality you're part of the problem.  I'm pretty confident that anyone who upvoted the original post if you're sat at your place of work and a handful or up to thousands of random people suddenly started calling you a p***k or a w****r etc every single time you were trying to do your job I'm sure it would affect how you go about things.  But then again football is different so its ok?

Edited May 3, 2021 by greendot

[Vimto90]

 
https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/mental-health-problems-introduction/causes/
 
Whilst its well documented with regards to David Cox's issues and other footballers / celebritites (social media blackout this weekend past about online abuse) you seem to fail to grasp the concept that as soon as you are continually abused verbally, it will take it's tole on your mental health.  Something which is all too apparent in football but is deemed acceptable cos it's 'banter', 'if they can't take it then don't dish it out' mentality', 'just a bit of fun' etc where in reality you're part of the problem.  I'm pretty confident that anyone who upvoted the original post if you're sat at your place of work and a handful or up to thousands of random people suddenly started calling you a p***k or a w****r etc every single time you were trying to do your job I'm sure it would affect how you go about things.  But then again football is different so its ok?

Spot on this.

The problem in this case is that people have tunnel vision regards to Tiffoneys sexual offence so they couldn't care less what was said to him if in fact it was along these lines.

Could be anything though, the consensus seems to be for example that if cox or any player calls another player say fat for 90mins n he comes back with something MH related then he's the wrong un.

Hopefully if nothing else this sorry saga brings some sort of reform n change to our game regarding such things.

[an86]

1 hour ago, greendot said:

I'm pretty confident that anyone who upvoted the original post if you're sat at your place of work and a handful or up to thousands of random people suddenly started calling you a p***k or a w****r etc every single time you were trying to do your job I'm sure it would affect how you go about things.  But then again football is different so its ok?

Is it hypocritical? Maybe. However, you can't have a catch all set up rules and etiquette across the whole of society. I wouldn't, for example, slide tackle a Chief Exec on the way to the photocopier because I really needed something printed off before them. There's a set of rules on a football pitch for what's acceptable and a set of rules for an office.

Adrenaline doesn't power through you in an office like it does on or around a football pitch, therefore it's not even scientifically reasonable to expect people to conduct themselves in the same manner, never mind morally. 

Not once did I say it was right to call someone a p***k or a w****r, but it's not a tailor made insult to basically boot someone in the soul the way that using illness, race, gender or sexuality is. You can't compare the two. Even if you wanted to debate whether calling someone a w****r within whatever context was right or wrong, you would accept that there's a difference between crossing the line and hurdling so far over it that you fly out of sight. 

Absolutely everyone has crossed the line, either on or off of a football pitch. Not everyone has set out to deliberately hurt someone so deeply over a matter of life and death. 

Out of interest, what do you think is the acceptable way to react to a perceived dive or foul, or reaction to a fly gesture or smirk from an opponent on the wind up? I think it's perfectly consistent to want to tackle vile abuse, whilst retaining the glory of shithousery. It's not a black/white, right/wrong issue and requires context. 

Will give you an example. Scottish Cup tie at Spartans, I loudly explained to the big Spartans centre half who was crying about an award of a corner, that if the ball hit him last, it was our corner. "Shut it ya fanny" was his retort. Red cardable offence? Possibly. Would I have wanted the guy off? Absolutely not. Sending someone off for being factually correct would have been a travesty for a start. He got it for the rest of the game. No lines crossed. We actually spoke to the guy on the way out of the social club and he was brand new. Sometimes "that's football" is exactly that. The rules are different. 

[Vimto90]

Is it hypocritical? Maybe. However, you can't have a catch all set up rules and etiquette across the whole of society. I wouldn't, for example, slide tackle a Chief Exec on the way to the photocopier because I really needed something printed off before them. There's a set of rules on a football pitch for what's acceptable and a set of rules for an office.
Adrenaline doesn't power through you in an office like it does on or around a football pitch, therefore it's not even scientifically reasonable to expect people to conduct themselves in the same manner, never mind morally. 
Not once did I say it was right to call someone a p***k or a w****r, but it's not a tailor made insult to basically boot someone in the soul the way that using illness, race, gender or sexuality is. You can't compare the two. Even if you wanted to debate whether calling someone a w****r within whatever context was right or wrong, you would accept that there's a difference between crossing the line and hurdling so far over it that you fly out of sight. 
Absolutely everyone has crossed the line, either on or off of a football pitch. Not everyone has set out to deliberately hurt someone so deeply over a matter of life and death. 
Out of interest, what do you think is the acceptable way to react to a perceived dive or foul, or reaction to a fly gesture or smirk from an opponent on the wind up? I think it's perfectly consistent to want to tackle vile abuse, whilst retaining the glory of shithousery. It's not a black/white, right/wrong issue and requires context. 
Will give you an example. Scottish Cup tie at Spartans, I loudly explained to the big Spartans centre half who was crying about an award of a corner, that if the ball hit him last, it was our corner. "Shut it ya fanny" was his retort. Red cardable offence? Possibly. Would I have wanted the guy off? Absolutely not. Sending someone off for being factually correct would have been a travesty for a start. He got it for the rest of the game. No lines crossed. We actually spoke to the guy on the way out of the social club and he was brand new. Sometimes "that's football" is exactly that. The rules are different. 

Not a bad post.

My retort would be though who are we to decide what is worse and what could affect mental health.

For all we know a player may have been subject to abuse as a child and the abusive parent called him a "w*nker" constantly through the abuse. An extreme example but entirely possible.

I understand in this circumstance we know about the player in questions MH as he has been public about it.