This is why the Tories won the election

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

UKIP stole a lot of their voters.

I wonder how much the eu referendum or lack of, played into it.

I don't think the EU ref or the rise of UKIP was the problem. UKIP had two main thrusts, first in the South East which possibly did hurt Labour but more likely took Tory votes. Second as opposition in the urban North of England where it seems the conservatives have abandoned even the idea of campaigning, similar to huge swathes of Scotland. UKIP aren't the natural successor to Labour and their policies not wholly popular but are the only alternative to Labour in the area.

If there was a credible alternate left party in England Labour could have lost even more "safe" seats.

[Pete's Frontier]

They won because they didn't want fat Eck as deputy pm, thanks god.

[Fotbawmad]

I don't think the EU ref or the rise of UKIP was the problem. UKIP had two main thrusts, first in the South East which possibly did hurt Labour but more likely took Tory votes. Second as opposition in the urban North of England where it seems the conservatives have abandoned even the idea of campaigning, similar to huge swathes of Scotland. UKIP aren't the natural successor to Labour and their policies not wholly popular but are the only alternative to Labour in the area.

If there was a credible alternate left party in England Labour could have lost even more "safe" seats.

It makes sense that someone in the North of England might switch from Labour to UKIP. If they think their lack of jobs, benefits and living space is all the fault of foreigners. Incorrect yes, but perfectly logical conclusion from someone in that demographic to come to.

[tamthebam]

Apparently they won because they appealed to the "aspirational". I read aspirational as "Vote Tory because let's be honest, do you really give a f*ck about the poor anyway".

I actually wonder about this idea of aspiration- I mean I have aspirations to shag Kylie Minogue, it's just very very very unlikely that the aspirations will ever be fulfilled.

[Fotbawmad]

Apparently they won because they appealed to the "aspirational". I read aspirational as "Vote Tory because let's be honest, do you really give a f*ck about the poor anyway".

I actually wonder about this idea of aspiration- I mean I have aspirations to shag Kylie Minogue, it's just very very very unlikely that the aspirations will ever be fulfilled.

"Aspirational" means helping poor people who don't want to be poor anymore. In a sense giving them a fishing rod; instead of alleviating immediate short term concerns with hand outs and government schemes. Which is like giving a man a fish everyday.

[MassiveFanDan]

The Tories won the election because the UK is a fundamentally Tory country.

That's why Labour had to become Tories too - and even after they did, it was still always a minor miracle when they got in.

The UK may not be Tory by very much, and it hopefully won't be Tory for very long, but it is Tory. It is a Tory state.

Realising that has actually made me more sympathetic to the Labour argument (politically self-serving and unabashedly nationalistic though it is, coming from them) that "we cannae abandon our brothers and sisters in Newcastle" rather than less. Funny that.

[Wee Willie]

The Tories won the election because the UK is a fundamentally Tory country.

That's why Labour had to become Tories too - and even after they did, it was still always a minor miracle when they got in.

The UK may not be Tory by very much, and it hopefully won't be Tory for very long, but it is Tory. It is a Tory state.

Realising that has actually made me more sympathetic to the Labour argument (politically self-serving and unabashedly nationalistic though it is, coming from them) that "we cannae abandon our brothers and sisters in Newcastle" rather than less. Funny that.

That's no true.

You're confusing Britain with England.

Just look at the political maps that have been posted on these forums.

For many years the Tories have been a minority party in Scotland.

Before Scotland was SNP territory it was Labour.

Quite honestly I don't give a f**k about English politics.

As long as the Tories are kept oot of Scotland then I'll be relatively happy.

[Granny Danger]

"Aspirational" means helping poor people who don't want to be poor anymore. In a sense giving them a fishing rod; instead of alleviating immediate short term concerns with hand outs and government schemes. Which is like giving a man a fish everyday.

Christ some folk are naive; or at least think others are naive.

"We need to encourage the unemployed into work; I know let's cut their benefit. What, their kids will be forced into even greater poverty; well that's just too bad we have to do something".

"There's too many folk on disability allowance, we need to redefine what we mean by that. Let's set tests that will make it more difficult for them and at the same time we can make huge profits for our doners whose companies will carry out the tests".

"Let's kid Mr and Mrs Joe Public that they have the same ambitions and aspirations as us; we'll give them a wee tax break here and there but don't worry we'll claw it back through cuts in their health service, education, police..... Meanwhile you and I will will get the serious tax breaks".

Anyone who buys the 'aspirational' line is a fucking mug.

[Wee Willie]

Christ some folk are naive; or at least think others are naive.

"We need to encourage the unemployed into work; I know let's cut their benefit. What, their kids will be forced into even greater poverty; well that's just too bad we have to do something".

"There's too many folk on disability allowance, we need to redefine what we mean by that. Let's set tests that will make it more difficult for them and at the same time we can make huge profits for our doners whose companies will carry out the tests".

"Let's kid Mr and Mrs Joe Public that they have the same ambitions and aspirations as us; we'll give them a wee tax break here and there but don't worry we'll claw it back through cuts in their health service, education, police..... Meanwhile you and I will will get the serious tax breaks".

Anyone who buys the 'aspirational' line is a fucking mug.

Aye but plenty of them did south of the border.

Does that mean all the millions that voted Tory don't have a social conscience.

I wid say aye.

Roll on independence.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I don't particularly buy this "Scotland is far more left wing than England" argument.

If anything we are conservative (with a small c) - gradual change tends to be the way things are done - even the SNP know that. Hence the disappearance of the Fundy wing of their party.

One big proving point might be the EU referendum when it comes - a lot have assumed that Scotland will vote overwhelmingly to stay in - I think people will be surprised at how many Scots will vote leave.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Christ some folk are naive; or at least think others are naive.

"We need to encourage the unemployed into work; I know let's cut their benefit. What, their kids will be forced into even greater poverty; well that's just too bad we have to do something".

"There's too many folk on disability allowance, we need to redefine what we mean by that. Let's set tests that will make it more difficult for them and at the same time we can make huge profits for our doners whose companies will carry out the tests".

"Let's kid Mr and Mrs Joe Public that they have the same ambitions and aspirations as us; we'll give them a wee tax break here and there but don't worry we'll claw it back through cuts in their health service, education, police..... Meanwhile you and I will will get the serious tax breaks".

Anyone who buys the 'aspirational' line is a fucking mug.

The problem though is that the media in general perpetuate the myths of the benefits scroungers - deep down most well-heeled voters are basically voting for themselves not for the good of others.

[Todders]

The Tories won the election because the UK is a fundamentally Tory country.

That's why Labour had to become Tories too - and even after they did, it was still always a minor miracle when they got in.

The UK may not be Tory by very much, and it hopefully won't be Tory for very long, but it is Tory. It is a Tory state.

Realising that has actually made me more sympathetic to the Labour argument (politically self-serving and unabashedly nationalistic though it is, coming from them) that "we cannae abandon our brothers and sisters in Newcastle" rather than less. Funny that.

37% voted Tory. Thirty fecking seven percent!

[MarkoRaj]

I don't particularly buy this "Scotland is far more left wing than England" argument.

If anything we are conservative (with a small c) - gradual change tends to be the way things are done - even the SNP know that. Hence the disappearance of the Fundy wing of their party.

One big proving point might be the EU referendum when it comes - a lot have assumed that Scotland will vote overwhelmingly to stay in - I think people will be surprised at how many Scots will vote leave.

One big proving point was the general election we just had one week ago with wildly different results

[jmothecat]

I don't particularly buy this "Scotland is far more left wing than England" argument.

If anything we are conservative (with a small c) - gradual change tends to be the way things are done - even the SNP know that. Hence the disappearance of the Fundy wing of their party.

One big proving point might be the EU referendum when it comes - a lot have assumed that Scotland will vote overwhelmingly to stay in - I think people will be surprised at how many Scots will vote leave.

I would agree. There seems to be this consensus building that England is right wing and Scotland is left, which I'm not sure is true. What the SNP I think have done very well is to become a moderately left of centre party, whilst maintaining their conservative support. They've eroded Labour support, attracted the radicals (who are happy to vote for a party offering radical constitutional change as they see it as an opportunity for radical policy post-Indy), been seen as a safe but outside the establishment party for students and former Lib Dem voters and the 'Tories hate Scotland' line still has mileage which makes small c conservatives who are patriotically Scottish easier to pick up by the SNP.

[Fide]

I would agree. There seems to be this consensus building that England is right wing and Scotland is left, which I'm not sure is true. What the SNP I think have done very well is to become a moderately left of centre party, whilst maintaining their conservative support. They've eroded Labour support, attracted the radicals (who are happy to vote for a party offering radical constitutional change as they see it as an opportunity for radical policy post-Indy), been seen as a safe but outside the establishment party for students and former Lib Dem voters and the 'Tories hate Scotland' line still has mileage which makes small c conservatives who are patriotically Scottish easier to pick up by the SNP.

You can disguise it behind "varying shades of" as much as you want but the fact is that Scotland IS left wing and England IS right wing.

[Granny Danger]

The problem though is that the media in general perpetuate the myths of the benefits scroungers - deep down most well-heeled voters are basically voting for themselves not for the good of others.

I think many 'well-heeled' voters have a social conscience. I also think it is the job of political parties to educate the voters. There are some really thick folk who think that because they own their own house (or in many cases will do once the mortgage is paid off) and have a wee bit of savings then their interests are the same as the Tories.

This thinking ignores the impact of cuts in the health service, the police, education (which will effect their kids or grandkids) and the fact that they can't insulate themselves from society where many others will suffer with potential social conflict.

[Baxter Parp]

The Tories won because the Lib Dems collapsed.

[Thumper]

I don't particularly buy this "Scotland is far more left wing than England" argument.

You spoiled your vote during the most important democratic event of our lifetimes, so your opinion on political matters could not be less relevant.

[jmothecat]

The Tories won because the Lib Dems collapsed.

It makes the NUS decision to target Lib Dems heavily look like a great decision.

As much as the NUS are basically a Labour group it does make me happy my uni decided to have nothing to do with them.

[MarkoRaj]

I would agree. There seems to be this consensus building that England is right wing and Scotland is left, which I'm not sure is true. What the SNP I think have done very well is to become a moderately left of centre party, whilst maintaining their conservative support. They've eroded Labour support, attracted the radicals (who are happy to vote for a party offering radical constitutional change as they see it as an opportunity for radical policy post-Indy), been seen as a safe but outside the establishment party for students and former Lib Dem voters and the 'Tories hate Scotland' line still has mileage which makes small c conservatives who are patriotically Scottish easier to pick up by the SNP.

Except scotland has rejected the tories for far longer than the snp has had support, rendering this post along with your Twitter mewlings utterly wrong.

This idea that Scotland and England have the same political views is so backwards it's unreal.