Mhairi Black appreciation thread

[williemillersmoustache]

I think i'm either on step 4 or 6. Will you sponsor me?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Someone needs to provide the bite in comparison to the middle of the road uncle tam unionist sympathising lackies that seem to make up this forum.

It is ironic for any nationalist to accuse folk of being quislings, traitors or uncle tams given the hidden past of the SNP.

Arthur Donaldson (SNP leader in the 1960s toyed with idea of proposing himself as a leader of a separate Scotland if the Nazis had invaded Britain.

Andrew Dewar Gibb, then leader if the SNP, told their 1939 party conference that "imperial England" had no right "to criticise the actions of any other country" (ie Germany).

Nationalist poet Hugh McDiarmid argued in the 1930s argued that Nazism should be a model for Scottish socialist nationalists - in 1940 he admitted in a poem that if London were destroyed by bombs he would "hardly care."

In 1940, Professor Douglas Young (SNP Chair) was jailed for leading a group of nationalists opposed to conscription in what he described as an "English war".

It's not to say that Donaldson, Gibb, McDiarmid or Young were Nazis but that they couldn't see past their own obsessions - for them Germany was an ally because Germany was the enemy of England.

It should also be noted that other parties had their own sympathisers with Nazi Germany - Mosley in the Labour Party; Rothermere and others for the Tories; Churchill and his arms deals.

No political party is in the position to accuse others of being traitors or quislings given the mistakes of their predecessors in the past.

[xbl.]

I wasnt around in the 1930s. I dont speak for the SNP. I just call anti-Scottish quisling behaviour when I see it. So for example, Foulkes accusing the SNP of deliberately trying to make things better, the Lib Dem Scottish secretary going on a world tour to tell people to avoid investing in Scotland, the Labour politician who announced that Labour would support the union even if it was proven that independence would be better for Scotland.

I dont need to go to the past for this. This is all stuff that has happened in the last two years. So anti-Scottish political behaviour by Scottish politicians in an effort to work against Scotland's interests in order to bow down to their craven foreign paymasters. That is pretty much the dictionary definition of "Quisling".

[xbl.]

I think i'm either on step 4 or 6. Will you sponsor me?

You'll know when you reach step 7 when you start thinking about donating to the next Wings fundraiser. If you can still think about Nick Robinson and Jackie Bird without feelings of rage, you're still a step 4.

[williemillersmoustache]

Sorry, I still want to pump Jackie Bird at some point, I'm a 4.

[xbl.]

Sorry, I still want to pump Jackie Bird at some point, I'm a 4.

Give it time. I genuinely havent watched reporting scotchland since about 2012.

[Ira Gaines]

Ah, there's the pathetic crybaby xbl I remember.

[xbl.]

Ah, there's the pathetic crybaby xbl I remember.

"Member Since 31-May 14"

Remember from when exactly?

[Ira Gaines]

I'm DomDom. Not exactly a secret.

[Bobby Skidmarks]

I'm DomDom. Not exactly a secret.

You'd resigned before he was banned. I'm sure he can be forgiven for thinking you hadn't come back with your tail between your legs.

[xbl.]

I'm DomDom. Not exactly a secret.

And how would I have known that? But nvm, I recall you.

[strichener]

It is ironic for any nationalist to accuse folk of being quislings, traitors or uncle tams given the hidden past of the SNP.

Arthur Donaldson (SNP leader in the 1960s toyed with idea of proposing himself as a leader of a separate Scotland if the Nazis had invaded Britain.

Andrew Dewar Gibb, then leader if the SNP, told their 1939 party conference that "imperial England" had no right "to criticise the actions of any other country" (ie Germany).

Nationalist poet Hugh McDiarmid argued in the 1930s argued that Nazism should be a model for Scottish socialist nationalists - in 1940 he admitted in a poem that if London were destroyed by bombs he would "hardly care."

In 1940, Professor Douglas Young (SNP Chair) was jailed for leading a group of nationalists opposed to conscription in what he described as an "English war".

It's not to say that Donaldson, Gibb, McDiarmid or Young were Nazis but that they couldn't see past their own obsessions - for them Germany was an ally because Germany was the enemy of England.

It should also be noted that other parties had their own sympathisers with Nazi Germany - Mosley in the Labour Party; Rothermere and others for the Tories; Churchill and his arms deals.

No political party is in the position to accuse others of being traitors or quislings given the mistakes of their predecessors in the past.

Fux sake Scotland was voting Tory back then. Completely irrelevant to Scotland in 2015.

You must try harder...

[Geedub-MFC]

The word quisling always reminds me of this legend

"You mimsy b*****d quisling leak f**k!"

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I wasnt around in the 1930s. I dont speak for the SNP. I just call anti-Scottish quisling behaviour when I see it. So for example, Foulkes accusing the SNP of deliberately trying to make things better, the Lib Dem Scottish secretary going on a world tour to tell people to avoid investing in Scotland, the Labour politician who announced that Labour would support the union even if it was proven that independence would be better for Scotland.

I dont need to go to the past for this. This is all stuff that has happened in the last two years. So anti-Scottish political behaviour by Scottish politicians in an effort to work against Scotland's interests in order to bow down to their craven foreign paymasters. That is pretty much the dictionary definition of "Quisling".

Well a wee hint - the word has its roots in the 1930s/1940s:

"quis·ling

(kwĭz′lĭng)

n.

A traitor who serves as the puppet of the enemy occupying his or her country.

[After Vidkun Quisling, (1887-1945), head of Norway's government during the Nazi occupation (1940-1945).]"

Foulkes might be a lying duplicitous b*****d but I wouldn't describe him as a quisling.

What you really mean - like most other people who use the word - is someone you disagree with.

[xbl.]

Well a wee hint - the word has its roots in the 1930s/1940s:

"quis·ling

(kwĭz′lĭng)

n.

A traitor who serves as the puppet of the enemy occupying his or her country.

[After Vidkun Quisling, (1887-1945), head of Norway's government during the Nazi occupation (1940-1945).]"

Foulkes might be a lying duplicitous b*****d but I wouldn't describe him as a quisling.

What you really mean - like most other people who use the word - is someone you disagree with.

Remind me, when Foulkes used that word, who ruled Britain?

I note you also glossed over the Lib Dem North British Governer General. You'll find that I used the term precisely, and with accuracy.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Remind me, when Foulkes used that word, who ruled Britain?

I note you also glossed over the Lib Dem North British Governer General. You'll find that I used the term precisely, and with accuracy.

The term was used completely inaccurately. It is the usual throwaway abuse by those so obsessed with what they preserve as attacks on their nation that they can't see the woods for the trees.

Unlike the Norwegians our representatives were elected and their actions, whether you agree with them or not were through that democratic mandate. I might not particularly agree with the SNP (although I did vote for Stewart Hosie on a personal basis) but I do recognise that they have a defined mandate due to their 56 MPs. If I disagree I (along with others) can always vote them out.

The Norwegians never had the luxury of either voting Vidkun Quisling in or removing him democratically.

That is the key difference.

But then you know that.

[xbl.]

The term was used completely inaccurately. It is the usual throwaway abuse by those so obsessed with what they preserve as attacks on their nation that they can't see the woods for the trees.

Unlike the Norwegians our representatives were elected and their actions, whether you agree with them or not were through that democratic mandate. I might not particularly agree with the SNP (although I did vote for Stewart Hosie on a personal basis) but I do recognise that they have a defined mandate due to their 56 MPs. If I disagree I (along with others) can always vote them out.

The Norwegians never had the luxury of either voting Vidkun Quisling in or removing him democratically.

That is the key difference.

But then you know that.

Are you referring to Baron Foulkes of Cumnock again? Can't wait to vote him out!

[Gordon EF]

The term was used completely inaccurately. It is the usual throwaway abuse by those so obsessed with what they preserve as attacks on their nation that they can't see the woods for the trees.

Unlike the Norwegians our representatives were elected and their actions, whether you agree with them or not were through that democratic mandate. I might not particularly agree with the SNP (although I did vote for Stewart Hosie on a personal basis) but I do recognise that they have a defined mandate due to their 56 MPs. If I disagree I (along with others) can always vote them out.

The Norwegians never had the luxury of either voting Vidkun Quisling in or removing him democratically.

That is the key difference.

But then you know that.

Also, Foulkes isn't Norwegian.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Are you referring to Baron Foulkes of Cumnock again? Can't wait to vote him out!

I was referring in general to the use if the word not Foulkes specifically.

But if you want to play that game explain in what leadership role Foulkes was acting when he made those (alleged) comments?

I've also checked the speech and tbh what he said was fair political comment.

Given the financial commitments by the SNP a fall in the oil price would be a deterrent to investment. Foulkes was not calling on businesses to not invest but saying it would be difficult to invest.

The problem is that some nationalists are so deaf to the opinions of others that they see an deviation from their world view as an attack.

It isn't - it's just that someone has a different opinion from you.

For the record, I actually do believe an iScotland could be successful - I just don't believe that the economic policies proposed in the White Paper are either going to work or are realistic. But then that's my opinion and no doubt you will have a different point of view - that's your right. We live in a democracy and respecting others right to have opinions (even if we disagree with them) is part of that democratic process.

The use if intemperate language such as quisling, traitor or uncle tom (which is actually objectionable with its racist connotations) adds nothing to the debate, adds nothing to the democratic process - it just shows your political immaturity and inability to handle someone you disagree with.

[xbl.]

Lord George Foulkes:

"The SNP are on a very dangerous tack. What they are doing is trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are manifestly better than south of the border in a number of areas."

Interviewer Colin Mackay:"Is that a bad thing?"

Lord George Foulkes: "No, but they are doing it deliberately."

I believe said Foulkes was representing Labour...and Labour were, err, the governing party of Great and Glorious Britain. To be fair though, I can't recall the exact date so I'll happily accept a correction. I'll call it as I see it, and if I see senior figures and Unionist politicians conspiring against the best interests of Scotland, all to serve their London masters, I'll damn well call them quislings. Gordon Brown was the worst of the lot.

Btw, I find it very interesting that one side continues to be under attack for "intemperate" language, while the other side effectively gets a free pass. As it happens, I'm a great believer in free speech. And so I don't feel the need to bow down to the pressure to just lie here and take the abuse from the Unionist side. You can't defeat bullies and thugs by cowing to them and ceding ground. Something that oor more "moderate" independence supporters would do well to remember sometimes.