EU Referendum

[AberdeenBud 1,731]

Labour vote with the Tories to deny eu nationals the chance to vote in the ref

Scum.

[~~~ 4,915]

Confirmed. No EU nationals are allowed to vote and for some strange reason 16 & 17 year olds are being denied the vote

[H_B 1,715]

and for some strange reason 16 & 17 year olds are being denied the vote

Why is this strange given they don't vote in General Elections?

[Elixir 2,971]

This referendum isn't happening, mind. H_B assured us that there was no chance of it - "yes" scaremongering is all it is.

[strichener 1,571]

Why is this strange given they don't vote in General Elections?

Neither do Lords but they are being given the franchise in this referendum. To claim that this referendum is using the GE franchise would be misleading.

[Fotbawmad 241]

As far as I currently understand the Yes side has a 9 point lead, which is nothing like the unassailable 30 point lead the No campaign had at the start of the referendum last year.

However, what's interesting is the swing the No side seems to get after a debate. I've based the stats on the video below. Before the debate the polls were...

Yes - 43%

No - 30%

Don't Know - 27%

However, after the debate the results were...

Yes - 47%

No - 48%

Don't Know - 5%

Edited June 18, 2015 by Fotbawmad

[~~~ 4,915]

I really hope Coburn is leading the no campaign up here

[Pete's Frontier 56]

Greece just about history, and a bank collapse on the way that will reverberate across all of the eu creating more financial chaos. Really see no benefit to staying in this farce as a full member - just more cost, mass migration, loss of sovereignty and instability as has been the pattern for 42 years.. EU remains a bad idea, badly executed, a highly expensive and unaccountable bureaucracy, driven by self interest. And as for Scotland remaining a full member on it's own, as the genius that is Sturgeon is pushing for if England votes out and we don't, with 6 pointless (powerless) MEPS for a £2bn annual fee and likely £400k rebate.. How can they be serious? Send in the clowns.

[Elixir 2,971]

Put that bevvy down, Pete. Come on now.

[Mr. Bojangles 45]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33278440

I guess a financially and morally bankrupt government doesn't always get it's own way by playing Billy Big Balls.

Cameron played it fast and loose, and he's probably ripped his party in two because he assumed he wouldn't win the General Election and have to follow through with his manifesto.

[Thistle_do_nicely 2,792]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33278440

I guess a financially and morally bankrupt government doesn't always get it's own way by playing Billy Big Balls.

Cameron played it fast and loose, and he's probably ripped his party in two because he assumed he wouldn't win the General Election and have to follow through with his manifesto.

""We should never trust what the EU says. They change their mind more often than I change my shirts, which is very often," said Mr Redwood."

Mr Redwood is as erudite as Darren Mackie, it seems.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Thistle_do_nicely

[Elixir 2,971]

Mind during the rererendum when we were told about the UK's "clout" in the world?

Meanwhile, Cameron is utterly scrambling for relevance trying to "renegotiate with the EU". In other words: sit down in the corner and be quiet.

[Tio Pepe 47]

Greece just about history, and a bank collapse on the way that will reverberate across all of the eu creating more financial chaos. Really see no benefit to staying in this farce as a full member - just more cost, mass migration, loss of sovereignty and instability as has been the pattern for 42 years.. EU remains a bad idea, badly executed, a highly expensive and unaccountable bureaucracy, driven by self interest. And as for Scotland remaining a full member on it's own, as the genius that is Sturgeon is pushing for if England votes out and we don't, with 6 pointless (powerless) MEPS for a £2bn annual fee and likely £400k rebate.. How can they be serious? Send in the clowns.

It's a good idea, badly executed.

[Fotbawmad 241]

It's a good idea, badly executed.

Part of the reason the EU came about was due to the threat of communism in the East. The Western bloc countries had no option, but to put on a united front against the Soviet union. However, that paradigm is long gone, but the EU still operates with the same bloc mentality and it's starting to show it's age. Just look at what's happening with the Greek negotiations. They're essentially saying they're not going to do Greece any favours. Even though it clearly at the very minimum needs debt write offs, but won't do it because that will set a precedent for other distressed countries. This is the downside of having a one size fits all approach to a large cultural and economically diverse area.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Fotbawmad

[AUFC90 852]

The EU was never about the USSR and all about maximizing economic clout.

[NotThePars 8,291]

Well it depends who you ask. For some it was to create a stable bloc against the USSR, for others it was to tie Germany's industrial potential into the rest of Western Europe and for some it was to give Europe more clout against both the Americans and the Soviets. And there were the economic reasons and the desire to prevent another conflict in Europe by drawing everyone closer together.

[AberdeenBud 1,731]

The EU was never about the USSR and all about maximizing economic clout.

Erm, tell that to the baltic/ iron curtain states. Very much about the USSR/Russia for them.

[Bookworm 5]

Well it depends who you ask. For some it was to create a stable bloc against the USSR, for others it was to tie Germany's industrial potential into the rest of Western Europe and for some it was to give Europe more clout against both the Americans and the Soviets. And there were the economic reasons and the desire to prevent another conflict in Europe by drawing everyone closer together.

I agree with all you say. I would only expand on your last point. Another war in Europe between Russia and the EU is unimaginable. Pray it never happens. But how do we encourage ever closer union.? I must admit that how it stands I would probably vote to leave the EU on Immigration, cultural and UK financial considerations, but have much to be convinced of, and could be swayed to vote to stay in The EU if the adverse effects on my fellows could not be alleviated.

The Euro is a failure and does not encourage ever closer union, so what if a single language was adopted. Could this draw the peoples of Europe together?

[bob the tank 544]

A common language? Imagine the disputes regarding which to choose.

Esperanto was the language of choice at one time

[Bookworm 5]

A common language? Imagine the disputes regarding which to choose.

The early settlers in what was to become the USA came mainly from Europe. Perhaps the most important compromise to make the USA successful was to speak English.