el buitre Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 It's not gambling, it's stealing money from a company who are offering a service in good faith. Betting on something that has already happened is a con. Offering a service in good faith.....you'll have me greeting in a minute. What about the times you've had a bet on and they change the odds after the event and cite a pricing error. f**k them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 It's not gambling, it's stealing money from a company who are offering a service in good faith. Betting on something that has already happened is a con. Good faith? Earlier you mentioned the spirit of gambling? Are you William Hill or Victor Chandler? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I presume it is directly over the internet, while normal tv feeds have to be sent to satellites etc How quick would that be though, with a mobile device? I was thinking a radio link to someone not far from the stadium with ultrafast broadband, and either a very fancy automatic program or a clued up bod ready to click enter. Otherwise anyone could do it directly with the bookies with a mobile phone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 No, I just enjoy gambling and I find people taking the piss out of it ruins the fun of it. This ruins the fun for you? I guess you just haven't ever been messed about by a bookie. Generally they're c***s, and if they can't keep up and lose out as a result, then that's their problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickerman Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 It works both ways though , In Running betting is a big earner for Bookmakers its all about fast feeds and split second decisions , plus the bookmaker has the option not to take the bet or keep the punter waiting on the spinning clock until something happens then conveniently take or refuse the bet Bookmakers are not squeaky clean 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I would almost agree with your view point if the bookies did not exploit their own time advantage over punters. Their live streams are normally ahead of the TV , but the odds are usually updated before they have even shown the action on their stream. Snooker is probably the best example of this. They offer in play, the time between shots allows plenty of bets to be placed. Bookmakers do not have a cancel option. As a punter I accept this that the bookmaker will have the advantage. I do not accept that if a punter has an advantage they are a cheat or doing anything illegal, unless having a direct influence on the outcome. A courtsider is not a cheat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 The point was that bookmakers will happily allow punters to bet on outcomes knowing that they receive information before the punters. If they expect punters to accept that as part of the experience, I am not sure how they can cry when a punter uses information to their own advantage. A hypothetical. Motherwell had training today. Two of their first choice centre backs were injured and they will also be missing Pearson and MacDonald on Saturday. The bookmaker does not know this. Ross County are 7/4 to win, the price was set before this information is known. Am I conning them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Being at a match, is also using information that is readily available to get an edge over the book. I think this argument has run its course without anything new being added. I certainly disagree with your viewpoint. I can sleep happily knowing I "con" the bookies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Being at a match, is also using information that is readily available to get an edge over the book. I think this argument has run its course without anything new being added. I certainly disagree with your viewpoint. I can sleep happily knowing I "con" the bookies. Can you beat the bookies and other punters from courtside with a mobile phone or would you need special equipment? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanny paddery Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 I am on Loki's side here. It is up to the bookmaker to control for people who might have faster streams. If trading on betfair, you have to be aware of the risk of others having a faster stream than yourself. Reminds me of one of my mates who was watching the horse racing. A certain horse went about three lengths clear and he saw its price was 500/1 in running so he backed it. Turns out he had forgotten he had paused the live stream when he went to the toilet and as such was about a minute behind the action. Safe to say the horse fell at the next. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanny paddery Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 Can you beat the bookies and other punters from courtside with a mobile phone or would you need special equipment? Yes, but you tend to find it difficult to get a signal at many sporting events. Many horse racing venues actually provide wifi for bookies so that they can trade, effectively courtsiding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Yes, but you tend to find it difficult to get a signal at many sporting events. Many horse racing venues actually provide wifi for bookies so that they can trade, effectively courtsiding. That's been my experience. Just to get the bet on for an ordinary punter would be too slow. We're talking about a well funded scam, much like the old days of slowing down the telegraph. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Completey ignored everything I just said. Bizarre post. Your passive aggressive post surely stemming from your ridiculous comparison being called out. I don't think that either of us are going to change our position, so there is no point arguing back and forth. We have both made our arguments and it is up to others to read them and make their own minds up. I think the comparison was valid, you don't. @Welshbairn - As Fanny Paddery pointed out it is very difficult to beat a time delay here due to mobile phone signals etc. However when an event is on another continent and you happen to be at the event, there is a greater time delay so theoretically it is easier to beat. But as the saints_are_coming has said more and more bookies are at these events so they can lay bets off and adjust their odds quicker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogsideloyal Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I'm with Loki 100%. The bookies are the ones who make the odds, and if they don't put the correct odds up then that's their problem. The saints are coming - if my best mate was on the board a club X and told me that manager Y was definitely getting the managers job, and person Y was available at 6/1, would you be against me lumping on? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydeSI Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I don't think it's about gaining the edge on traditional bookies as such, it seems more to me like the exchanges that take the bulk (if not all) of the trading. I've no idea why an ordinary punter would want to sit and bet on the exchanges point by point on a tennis game. Which suggests to me that courtsiding drives a "competition" between syndicates where the winner is the one with the fastest, most effective Technology. If that's the case, then leave them to it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karpaty Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 At smaller events such as the Albanian second division or whatever, surely the bookmakers would have a scout there rather than watching it on a stream if such a stream was available? Don't see how the punter would have an advantage if they are both watching it in real time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Saint Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 This is great. Ethics and bookmakers in the same discussion. Who'd have thought it. FWIW I've been on both sides of the fence and I fall firmly in the 'if you've go the info use it' camp. I was at Pontefract races a few years ago and in the pre-parade ring the favourite in a small field 2 year old race was being 'coltish' shall we say. Obviously not focused on the job at hand! Now I had that info but not many others at the meeting did. Was I somehow wrong to use that info to my advantage by backing against the favourite? Rhetorical question really because the answer is definitely not. I've got the edge in that situation, I damn well used it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True Saintee Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) This is a slightly unrelated question but I've been wondering a while now how the likes of bet365 who have their inplay graphic do this sort of thing at say, Alloas development games? I've been to a number of these types of game where ive literally knew everyone in the crowd, and theres not anyone with an obvious device reporting back, as far as I can sss. Edited May 1, 2015 by True Saintee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Actually noticed it last night in Copa Libertadores. San Lorenzo v Danubio was 0-0 in the 88th minute when Danubio won a corner. Suddenly the odds were all over the place for a few seconds before being suspended, and then finally about 5 seconds later Danubio take the corner and head it in. Pitchsiding? There can be a delay of 30 seconds or more on "live" pictures on these games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 This is great. Ethics and bookmakers in the same discussion. Who'd have thought it. FWIW I've been on both sides of the fence and I fall firmly in the 'if you've go the info use it' camp. I was at Pontefract races a few years ago and in the pre-parade ring the favourite in a small field 2 year old race was being 'coltish' shall we say. Obviously not focused on the job at hand! Now I had that info but not many others at the meeting did. Was I somehow wrong to use that info to my advantage by backing against the favourite? Rhetorical question really because the answer is definitely not. I've got the edge in that situation, I damn well used it. I remember emptying my pockets at 1/2 on a photo finish at Ayr, the bookies had the same options open to them as I did, my eyes were obviously better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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