Time We All Took A Stand Against SKY

[grazza]

This is down to the ineptitude of the SPFL particulary Neil Doncaster. They talk down their own product going into negotiations.. Why the obsession with the EPL I think it is very overrated but there is clearly a demand there to watch it and I think people can enjoy their Scottish team but also appreciate a good level of football I like the Spanish league personally.and not need to be guilt tripped. Other than arm chair old firm fans I don't really see much appeal to fans of other clubs in Scottish football being on as a make or break issue for subscribing or not. For what they are getting from Sky yes they should have turned it down and they would have got at least a slightly better offer but if not they could have got some games on council telly where there is no live domestic league football being shown live and anyone can watch without needing to pay £50 or so a month, might make it easier to get a league sponsor though Doncaster would still probably mess that one up. On Sky your competing head to head with EPL games and hundreds of channels on council telly your competing with the Emmerdale Omnibus and Antiques Roadshow.

[AMMjag]

Team: Celtic. Didn't read.

[jagfox]

[Charlie Saiz]

Nice talking to you all hope that doing f**k all thing works out well for your respective Clubs.

All the best.

[realmadrid]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tv-crimes-how-scottish-football-5271308

"Just last month rugby league agreed a five-year deal with Sky for a whopping £200m – £25m more per season than the money Scottish football earns.

The latest available figures – 11/08/13 – show the sport attracts around 100,000 viewers, with the highest being the game against Hull KR and Hull FC which saw 150,000 people tuning in.

To put this in some perspective, Scottish football’s highest ratings during a similar period – 26/01/14 – saw 247,000 watch Hibs v Celtic.

....The Aviva Premiership last month announced a new deal with BT Sport that’s worth £38m a year – £23m more than Neil Doncaster and Co secured."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/state-of-scottish-football-does-the-tv-deal-represent-value-for-money.119853892

"Geographical proximity means England is the most obvious market to look at - especially when it is the same two broadcasters who are showing the majority of the matches - but it is something of a red herring when it comes to drawing comparisons given the vast disparity in population size.

Instead, for a more accurate take on whether the Scottish football deal represents value for money, it is perhaps more instructive to look at some examples of other small to medium-sized European nations and their football broadcasting contracts....

Greece population 11m Clubs in the Greek Super League will share €40m (£30m) per year until 2017, with a two-year extension being negotiated that could take that figure up to €43m (£31m) each season until 2019.

Belgium, where the population is roughly the same as that in Greece The Jupiler Pro League last year negotiated a six-year deal worth a minimum of €55m (£40m) per season, a sum that could rise as high as €70m (£50m) each year when foreign rights are taken into the equation. Like Scotland Belgium also shares a border with bigger, more prosperous nations in France and Germany without being similarly adversely affected.

Norway (population 5m) In the last round of deals, the two channels paid a total of 1.6bn Norwegian krone (around £135m, £34m per year) to show live matches from the Tippeligaen for four seasons of summer football from 2013 to 2016. That sum is expected to fall when the time comes for the next round of negotiations with reduced competition in the market due to C More's removal from the picture but will likely still dwarf what is on offer in Scotland.

Austria (population 8m) the figures are more in line with here. A three-year deal that began in season 2013/14 between Sky Deutschland (subscription) and ORF (free-to-air broadcaster) is thought to be worth around €20m (£15m) a year.

Holland (population 17m) In 2008, clubs in the Netherlands not happy with the offers on the table took over the broadcasting rights themselves to form an in-house subscription-only channel that showed all matches live. Rupert Murdoch's Fox Sports network bought them out five years later in a €1bn (£720m) 12-year deal that worked out at around €80m (£59m) per season

The comparisons with other nations are irrelevant as unless there are changes to the way broadcasting is set up in the UK. As such we are part of a UK wide service and no matter what we think Sky are only interested in Scottish football as a filler before the main show. How many times to Sky show a Scottish game at 4pm on a Sunday? No we are the filler for the main event and thus get paid warm up rates.

I have been told by two separate sources (One who works in TV and one a director of a SPFL team) that Sky are prepared to pay more for Scottish football but its conditional on us giving them summer football (Not all summer) but some football during the period of July to mid August and not just on a Saturday but potentially 4 nights a week outside of the UEFA dates so football on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. If teams can play Saturday Tuesday it could be possible for those not in Europe to play Friday, Monday and the European teams to have fixtures arranged on a Sunday and play the other games later in the season.

[jagfox]

Mind yer arse on the door on the way out m8 x

[Scary Bear]

I don't have Sky. Can I play?

[Arsenal till I die]

Save your money, never mind the principle. I prefer watching it in the pub, and try going offy when you're married with kids...

[Motherwell Kev]

I'm a fan of Scottish football (that's why I'm here) and it's hard to disagree with Doncaster/Regan's ineptitude. But we have to be honest with ourselves: it's now a completely different sport to the top level stuff piped into our living rooms by SKY.

Quite apart from the deteriorating quality and lack of genuine competition at the top, things like hollow 'crowd' noises and plastic pitches mean it often lacks the production values they're after - even as a curtain raiser act. If SKY can't give it promotional fizz, then who can?

[effeffsee_the2nd]

Sky pay us an absolute pittance and use our games as slot fillers. The money doesnt stop our best players leaving every yesr to no named english lower lesgue outfits. Cancel sky and go watch youre teams. If youre team doesnt play on a sunday or monday then go play fives or start an amature team or even just take youre kids over the park. The epl is in the midst of a tv bubble. Now i know right now its hard to see that ending any time soon but all bubbles burst eventualy. Id pish my pants if the day finaly comes that the likes of swansea and west ham get the begging bucket out cause their skint

[highlandcowden]

I find the500million in subs per year from Scotland hardly believable.is that for real?

[EdTheDuck]

No I don't think they will suddenly double how much we get in terms or their Investment.

That would be ridiculous.

What I would expect though is if enough Subscribers in Scotland cancel their Subscriptions and tell them why they are doing so at a certain point someone in charge will take notice and realise the meagre sums they have put on the table by comparison to other less glamorous Leagues across Europe is simply not good enough.

They know they take over £500m a year from Scottish Subscribers and yet they offered £15m a year in return to go towards our National Game.

Scottish Football may not have the same appeal and audience as the Big Leagues across Europe but per head of population it has one of the largest following in World Football.

That with a game that's been in decline for years as our neighbours across the Border has boomed.

If we choose to do nothing about it then expect nothing to change.

SKY use Football as a means to an end the EPL is their flagship hence why they plough so much into it, they have monopolised the game across the globe and Leagues like our own have suffered as a result.

If your that desperate to watch EPL Games them simply stream them from sites who do so for free.

That way you get your fix and SKY stillget's the message from up North.

Enough is enough we are no longer prepared to Subsidise your Gravy Train Lifestyle in England whilst our Clubs are rooting through the SKY bin for scraps.

Here's a few facts regarding the current deals across Football:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tv-crimes-how-scottish-football-5271308

"Just last month rugby league agreed a five-year deal with Sky for a whopping £200m – £25m more per season than the money Scottish football earns.

The latest available figures – 11/08/13 – show the sport attracts around 100,000 viewers, with the highest being the game against Hull KR and Hull FC which saw 150,000 people tuning in.

To put this in some perspective, Scottish football’s highest ratings during a similar period – 26/01/14 – saw 247,000 watch Hibs v Celtic.

....The Aviva Premiership last month announced a new deal with BT Sport that’s worth £38m a year – £23m more than Neil Doncaster and Co secured."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/state-of-scottish-football-does-the-tv-deal-represent-value-for-money.119853892

"Geographical proximity means England is the most obvious market to look at - especially when it is the same two broadcasters who are showing the majority of the matches - but it is something of a red herring when it comes to drawing comparisons given the vast disparity in population size.

Instead, for a more accurate take on whether the Scottish football deal represents value for money, it is perhaps more instructive to look at some examples of other small to medium-sized European nations and their football broadcasting contracts....

Greece population 11m Clubs in the Greek Super League will share €40m (£30m) per year until 2017, with a two-year extension being negotiated that could take that figure up to €43m (£31m) each season until 2019.

Belgium, where the population is roughly the same as that in Greece The Jupiler Pro League last year negotiated a six-year deal worth a minimum of €55m (£40m) per season, a sum that could rise as high as €70m (£50m) each year when foreign rights are taken into the equation. Like Scotland Belgium also shares a border with bigger, more prosperous nations in France and Germany without being similarly adversely affected.

Norway (population 5m) In the last round of deals, the two channels paid a total of 1.6bn Norwegian krone (around £135m, £34m per year) to show live matches from the Tippeligaen for four seasons of summer football from 2013 to 2016. That sum is expected to fall when the time comes for the next round of negotiations with reduced competition in the market due to C More's removal from the picture but will likely still dwarf what is on offer in Scotland.

Austria (population 8m) the figures are more in line with here. A three-year deal that began in season 2013/14 between Sky Deutschland (subscription) and ORF (free-to-air broadcaster) is thought to be worth around €20m (£15m) a year.

Holland (population 17m) In 2008, clubs in the Netherlands not happy with the offers on the table took over the broadcasting rights themselves to form an in-house subscription-only channel that showed all matches live. Rupert Murdoch's Fox Sports network bought them out five years later in a €1bn (£720m) 12-year deal that worked out at around €80m (£59m) per season

All those leagues show ALL their games live on TV; do the sums and you'll find that per game Scotland get a better deal than any of them.

[~~~]

Sky/BT can offer as much or as little as they deem fit as they're a private broadcaster

My problem isn't so much we accept the money. But we allow our fixture schedule to be dictated by English football game, essentially our national game is playing 2nd fiddle to a "foreign" nation.

I'm pretty sure this would not happen elsewhere in Europe.

I believe we need a blackout of English games to a extend that for every game we have on our screens from down south, we should also have a Scottish one.

The BBC is a different kettle of fish, they're a disgrace they way they treat our national sport. We get bombarded via the national airways with English football (5Live being an example) yet our own game is only shown regionally.

We should have a spine to promote our game more and not just shrug our shoulders and accept the English dominance of our market.

[Tamdunk]

Alan Burrows raised some good points about this kinda thing recently. In order to become more attractive to TV companies clubs should look at how to make a better program of it. The on-field quality isn't going to compete with the top leagues in Europe, but you could have player mics, ref cams, access to team talks, more behind the scenes stuff. Try and get more characters giving less generic interviews. Could even look at the dreaded summer football where there isn't the same competition from other leagues.

[JRS LEFT PEG]

Hi there so not sure if there are other threads on here that are covering this Topic?

If so I will apologise in advance.

If not then I think it's high time all of us got together on this issue of the Finances coming into our game or as the case is the lack of finances coming in to Scottish Football on the whole.

Now whilst SKY are not the only reason for the poor deal we recently secured they could well be a big part of the cure should it transpire?

I say this because we are all acutely aware of the poor approach to bartering by our Powers at be who ahem run our game?

Going into a Financial Meeting decrying your product is sh##e and on the verge of disaster was hardly ever going to secure us top Dollar from the likes of SKY was it?

That shambles aside the people at SKY have severely undervalued our product.

There are a great many articles backing this up on the net a quick Google will verify this.

SKY left the table laughing their ar## off as far as I can tell..they must have because they take over £500m a year in Subscriptions out of Scotland.

That's £2bn in 4 years.

The EPL deal recently signed raised £5bn for them of that SKY pay the lions share of £4.167bn

Sky offered us £15m per year for 80 odd games

The EPL Deal works out at £10m per match which for the Financial Geniuses out there means 2 EPL games are now worth £5m more than the entire SPFL Deal for the Year.

Not only that our £2bn mentioned earlier pays for almost half of it.

In effect folks Scottish SKY Subscription are paying for the EPL Gravy boat to keep sailing.

We have a choice in Scotland as Football Fans we can either carry on taking this sh##e or we can collectively send SKY and BT indirectly a very strong message.

If we that is those among us who Subscribe to SKY cancel in Large Numbers suddenly there is a rather large spanner in the SKY works.

They are reliant on Subscription without them the Bubble bursts and if the bubble burst then we come to the table with a much stronger hand in future.

If we don't then expect more of the same or as I suspect a lot worse to come.

We cannot rely on the Suits at Hampden they are next to useless.

I no longer subscribe to SKY that changed a very long time ago I could see what was happening they have monopolised our game and in doing so our game up North has suffered.

Time to take a stand.

Join a growing number of Scottish Fans and cancel your Subscriptions today.

The number is 0344 261 0244

Let's make a change for the good of our game.

I agree 100% but people up here will not take a stand unfortunately.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

Alan Burrows raised some good points about this kinda thing recently. In order to become more attractive to TV companies clubs should look at how to make a better program of it. The on-field quality isn't going to compete with the top leagues in Europe, but you could have player mics, ref cams, access to team talks, more behind the scenes stuff. Try and get more characters giving less generic interviews. Could even look at the dreaded summer football where there isn't the same competition from other leagues.

Pretty much this, its hard to sell you're product for more money when it just doesn't look up to much. Nothing makes a game look more Diddy and amature than empty crowds where you can hear the players shouting at each other whilst playing on a tattle field of a pitch

[Ira Gaines]

Summer football.

[The Chlamydia Kid]

Hi there so not sure if there are other threads on here that are covering this Topic?

If so I will apologise in advance.

If not then I think it's high time all of us got together on this issue of the Finances coming into our game or as the case is the lack of finances coming in to Scottish Football on the whole.

Now whilst SKY are not the only reason for the poor deal we recently secured they could well be a big part of the cure should it transpire?

I say this because we are all acutely aware of the poor approach to bartering by our Powers at be who ahem run our game?

Going into a Financial Meeting decrying your product is sh##e and on the verge of disaster was hardly ever going to secure us top Dollar from the likes of SKY was it?

That shambles aside the people at SKY have severely undervalued our product.

There are a great many articles backing this up on the net a quick Google will verify this.

SKY left the table laughing their ar## off as far as I can tell..they must have because they take over £500m a year in Subscriptions out of Scotland.

That's £2bn in 4 years.

The EPL deal recently signed raised £5bn for them of that SKY pay the lions share of £4.167bn

Sky offered us £15m per year for 80 odd games

The EPL Deal works out at £10m per match which for the Financial Geniuses out there means 2 EPL games are now worth £5m more than the entire SPFL Deal for the Year.

Not only that our £2bn mentioned earlier pays for almost half of it.

In effect folks Scottish SKY Subscription are paying for the EPL Gravy boat to keep sailing.

We have a choice in Scotland as Football Fans we can either carry on taking this sh##e or we can collectively send SKY and BT indirectly a very strong message.

If we that is those among us who Subscribe to SKY cancel in Large Numbers suddenly there is a rather large spanner in the SKY works.

They are reliant on Subscription without them the Bubble bursts and if the bubble burst then we come to the table with a much stronger hand in future.

If we don't then expect more of the same or as I suspect a lot worse to come.

We cannot rely on the Suits at Hampden they are next to useless.

I no longer subscribe to SKY that changed a very long time ago I could see what was happening they have monopolised our game and in doing so our game up North has suffered.

Time to take a stand.

Join a growing number of Scottish Fans and cancel your Subscriptions today.

The number is 0344 261 0244

Let's make a change for the good of our game.

I would assume that the majority of Sky sports subscribers in Scotland pay for Sky sports to watch English football. If Sky didn't show any Scottish football then the fall in subscriptions wouldn't be that big. If the money from those wishing to primarily see Scottish football was vastly different to what Sky Sports allocate to SPL sides, then someone else would outbid Sky and take advantage.

[~~~]

I would assume that the majority of Sky sports subscribers in Scotland pay for Sky sports to watch English football.

That's what happens when a "foreign" league is promoted over our own domestic leagues, despite football being out national sport.

[Lex]

That's what happens when a "foreign" league is promoted over our own domestic leagues, despite football being out national sport.

Probably more to do with the quality of the product than promotion to be fair.

I watch far more English football on TV than I do Scottish football, and it's nothing to do with it being promoted more. It's just better to watch.