sparky88 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I've applied for jobs where people registered as disabled are guaranteed interviews as long as they meet minimum criteria.I don't see why introducing a Rooney rule is such a controversial next step 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsr Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 What if no black managers apply for a position? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I've applied for jobs where people registered as disabled are guaranteed interviews as long as they meet minimum criteria.I don't see why introducing a Rooney rule is such a controversial next step You suggesting being black is a disability? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 You suggesting being black is a disability?of course I'm not. Just that already people are given preference in being selected for interview due to a particular attribute. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo'ness Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I've applied for jobs where people registered as disabled are guaranteed interviews as long as they meet minimum criteria.I don't see why introducing a Rooney rule is such a controversial next step OK then, let's introduce that at least one disabled person is guaranteed an interview, then we can move on and add gender (look at how many male coaches are in women's football) and then go the whole hog by bringing sexual orientation into it. Anything else is surely discriminatory.......... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAGer Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I can't say I think there's a racial issue in managerial recruitment in England but if there is genuine belief that there is, how will the 'Rooney Rule' solve it? Isn't it the case that most managers are sought out, rather than brought in for an interview (at the higher levels, at least)? How many more black managers will we see because they're entitled to an interview? If the person making the decision is genuinely racist, they still won't appoint them anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Ah yes, the good old hypocrisy of pc at play again. Racism is disgusting, awful, terrible so we'll fight it with racism but give it a cuddly name to suit our agenda. I've read black/mixed race managers saying they don't wont it as it's back to the old days of tokenism. However these really caring white people insist on you having it so you'll have it, ok. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsr Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Meritocracy. Hire people based on ability. If the person doing the hiring is racist, sexist, whatever-ist, then deal with them. Don't introduce another problem to try and get around them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlandcowden Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Meritocracy. Hire people based on ability. If the person doing the hiring is racist, sexist, whatever-ist, then deal with them. Don't introduce another problem to try and get around them. good post and of course,merit is in fact the reason john barnes is no longer a football manager 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Does anybody arguing for a meritocracy want to hazard a guess as to why the proportion of black players to black managers is so out of kilter? What is it about black people that makes them particularly unsuited to football management? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Does anybody arguing for a meritocracy want to hazard a guess as to why the proportion of black players to black managers is so out of kilter? That the current generation of managers is largely from the playing days of the 80s and 90s when the percentage of black players was a lot lower than it is now. As more recent generations of players - where there are a lot more black players - go into coaching there will be more and more black coaches and managers, as we are seeing already infact. The Rooney rule will end of getting the credit for changes that will happen - and are happening - regardless. To get a true idea if people are racist towards black managers we would need to know how many applicants there are from black coaches/managers, compared with white managers, and see if the proportions are the same or different, I doubt these figures exist though. Edited June 5, 2015 by Diamonds are Forever 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I get what your saying but I would hazard a guess that even in the 90s the proportion was much higher than the 5% or so that make it into management. If people don't like quotas or don't care what colours managers are Thats fine. I just don't see how anyone could make the case that there is an equitable pathway into management and then staying in management for former black players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I get what your saying but I would hazard a guess that even in the 90s the proportion was much higher than the 5% or so that make it into management. If people don't like quotas or don't care what colours managers are Thats fine. I just don't see how anyone could make the case that there is an equitable pathway into management and then staying in management for former black players. What percentage of white players make it into management? The percentage of any group is going to be small given the relatively small number of managerial positions. Also what percentage of black players in England are actually British nationals? I'd imagine, certainly at Premier and Championship level, that a large proportion of black players are South American, African or from other European countries. It's unlikely these guys are going to hang around in the UK when their playing careers are over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) I get what your saying but I would hazard a guess that even in the 90s the proportion was much higher than the 5% or so that make it into management. If people don't like quotas or don't care what colours managers are Thats fine. I just don't see how anyone could make the case that there is an equitable pathway into management and then staying in management for former black players. Here's a study, though take it's presentation of stats and conclusions in the knowledge that it's produced by people with a very openly biased agenda (page 6), including affirmative action in football and in wider society. They also can't make their mind up if the % of black players (actually BME) is 25-30% or 25-40%, shoddy. It doesn't even fucking define what BME means - I'm guessing Black, Minority Ethnic). It does discuss some possible reasons from their point of view. I can't see any stat included that shows the total current population of 'qualified' coaches (FIFA badge or experience) by skin colour. That is, for any job that comes up, is the percentage of black people in the entire available talent pool actually representative of the percentage of black players who were active 5/10/20 years ago? Is it representative of the number of black people who are offered positions? Representative of the number who apply for positions? Representative of the number of foreign black players who leave the UK at the end of their career? What's the percentage of white candidates who are rejected/out of work compared to the total number of 'qualified' white people? Why aren't a representative percentage of black players doing their FIFA badges (25-30% players compared to ~6% doing badges)? If I had to guess I'd say that the main causes are networking-related and choice not to go into coaching. Claiming that there's no equal path open to black players, which means taking their badges, networking, and applying for jobs, is a touch hyperbolic. There may be some racism still kicking about, but I cannot imagine their is a nationwide conspiracy of chairmen refusing to hire black people, especially considering the percentage of black players outstrips the percentage of black people in the national population by about twice the amount (25-30% players (or is it 25-40%?), 14% population, according to the linked study). Very strange Barnes and co don't mention this and aren't calling for affirmative action for white players being passed over for black players. See where this shite goes when it's turned into a skin colour thing? Edited June 5, 2015 by banana 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Here's a study, though take it's presentation of stats and conclusions in the knowledge that it's produced by people with a very openly biased agenda (page 6), including affirmative action in football and in wider society. They also can't make their mind up if the % of black players (actually BME) is 25-30% or 25-40%, shoddy. It doesn't even fucking define what BME means - I'm guessing Black, Minority Ethnic). It does discuss some possible reasons from their point of view. I can't see any stat included that shows the total current population of 'qualified' coaches (FIFA badge or experience) by skin colour. That is, for any job that comes up, is the percentage of black people in the entire available talent pool actually representative of the percentage of black players who were active 5/10/20 years ago? Is it representative of the number of black people who are offered positions? Representative of the number who apply for positions? Representative of the number of foreign black players who leave the UK at the end of their career? What's the percentage of white candidates who are rejected/out of work compared to the total number of 'qualified' white people? Why aren't a representative percentage of black players doing their FIFA badges (25-30% players compared to ~6% doing badges)? If I had to guess I'd say that the main causes are networking-related and choice not to go into coaching. Claiming that there's no equal path open to black players, which means taking their badges, networking, and applying for jobs, is a touch hyperbolic. There may be some racism still kicking about, but I cannot imagine their is a nationwide conspiracy of chairmen refusing to hire black people, especially considering the percentage of black players outstrips the percentage of black people in the national population by about twice the amount (25-30% players (or is it 25-40%?), 14% population, according to the linked study). Very strange Barnes and co don't mention this and aren't calling for affirmative action for white players being passed over for black players. See where this shite goes when it's turned into a skin colour thing? I Don't disagree with anything you are saying. I also don't think there is any overt anti black racism happening. But it think the numbers show it is harder for a black man to get a job compared to a white man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 To be honest ,I think its because of his clothes. He dresses like a twat. How can you interview a man and take him seriously when he looks like he swapped jackets with Barry venison? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Ooft. Heads in the sand all over the place on this thread. If P&B were running the game, I guess those pesky inferior ethnics would just need to accept their place in the back room. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) Percentage of Black/Mixed race population in England - 5.8%. Percentage of Black/Mixed race managers in the Football League - 8.33%. I'm all for change if there appears to be an issue somewhere, but I'm really not sure where the issue lies here. As mentioned above there were far less Black players in the 70's and 80's compared to now, the number will go up naturally (and indeed, is going up naturally) as players from this generation begin to retire. Seems a bit like doing something for the sake of appearing to be doing something. Edited June 6, 2015 by Paco 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) Percentage of Black/Mixed race population in England - 5.8%. Percentage of Black/Mixed race managers in the Football League - 8.33%. In the study I linked it states 3.4% - source for the 8.33% figure? Edited June 8, 2015 by banana 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) I Don't disagree with anything you are saying. I also don't think there is any overt anti black racism happening. But it think the numbers show it is harder for a black man to get a job compared to a white man. I'm not sure how you can agree that there are numerous unanswered questions and unknown factors that are important for understanding exactly why the numbers are what they are, but then go on to say that (bolded). You're going to have to provide some reasoning. Following on from Paco's comment, the study I linked to is willfully deceptive in another way in that it lumps together all non-whites to form a % of population figure that it wants us to use as a basis for the % of non-white coaches it wants to see. The reason this is deceptive is that black players make up the vast majority of BME players, but make up a minority of BME in the current English population (4.6% black/black-mixed, 9.7% BME-non-black, 14.3% total). It's using a barely relevant demographic in footballing terms (non-black BME) to pump up the the percentage of a relevant demographic (black BME) to fit their agenda, because 4.6% population v 3.4% coaches doesn't look as good for the cause as 14.3% population v 3.4% coaches. This also makes the BME demographic overrepresented in the % taking FIFA badges - ~4.6% population v ~6% taking badges. Yet this 'Think Tank' (fucking hell) is openly saying it wants at least 20% (not 4.6%, not even the hugely inflated 14.3%) BME representation in coaches by 2020, and affirmative action (racism) to help reach these goals. Beware studies and statistics generated by agenda-driven movements, and the biased media regurgitation that follows. Edited June 8, 2015 by banana 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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