Mr Bairn Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I don't hate him at all, seems a good level headed guy, it's the fans that seem to worship him that I am ridiculing. Like I said I'd have him ranging from 4th-6th choice striker, as would most level headed people who watch football, including Strachan clearly. Personally think Rhodes isn't a lone striker, but if you're playing 2 up top then he should be one of them. Reminds me of Rangers UEFA cup run season where Kris Boyd could never get in the team in a 4-5-1 but was an automatic pick when they played with 2 strikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Not necessarily true - everyone was happy when we put six past the Faeroes because it was a strong, confident performance. This wasn't, but it's important that there was never really any doubt about the winner. 6-1 against anyone when you're not playing well is nothing to be sniffed at. The day certainly finished a lot better than it started at 5pm The Faroes are a better side than Gibraltar though, and our previous mishap against them probably meant there was more of a 'pleasing factor' at hammering them, plus we'd just come off a rotten campaign so expectations were lower and people were more pleasantly surprised at the performance against the Faroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grass Is Greener. Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Still not a fan of Fletcher as a lone striker against a better side, though. I'd even consider bringing in someone else wide right and sliding Naisy through the middle to play the counter attacking game. I think Fletcher is at his best against better sides tbh, his hold up play and linking with others is crucial in the system we use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I think Fletcher is at his best against better sides tbh, his hold up play and linking with others is crucial in the system we use.I reckon vs better sides, fletcher's link up will be crucial, but if he's flicking them on, who'll be in place to take the chances? We can't rely on anya wonder sprints (like vs Germany) all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 He's done at least as much as Griffiths, McCormack, May and definitely more than martin. That's debatable, his goalscoring record in the Championship is barely any better than McCormack and Martin, and I wager that those two have offered a lot more in terms of assists and build up play in addition. That's why I don't get the fuss about him, I think people think he scores more goals than he actually does. I'd have him ahead of May and Griffiths though. Edit: Since the start of last season Rhodes has scored 41 Championship goals, Martin 38 and McCormack 38. Considering that Martin and McCormack are better all round players is that really enough to say he should be playing ahead of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 That's debatable, his goalscoring record in the Championship is barely any better than McCormack and Martin, and I wager that those two have offered a lot more in terms of assists and build up play in addition. That's why I don't get the fuss about him, I think people think he scores more goals than he actually does. I'd have him ahead of May and Griffiths though. Martin has spiked in terms of goalscoring in the last season and a half (before that he was nowhere). My worry with him is he's just a very average striker experiencing a leap in form/chances, like mackail smith a few years back McCormack is a different player, a bit of a bulldog, but his goalscoring is very erratic Rhodes has scored 20+ for 5 seasons running, coming up for 6, with one 40+ season. We have no other player like him (expect witty reply saying 'thankfully') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Not convinced about Martin. He does well for Derby but his 2/3 appearances for us have been meh. Also not a fan of Naismith as a lone striker as he's much more effective in behind the striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Not convinced about Martin. He does well for Derby but his 2/3 appearances for us have been meh. Also not a fan of Naismith as a lone striker as he's much more effective in behind the striker.Martin has had 5 caps. 5 anonymous caps IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Gandosaur Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Stevie May put himself about quite well against England I thought. Was disappointed not to see him at any point over the 2 games this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Does Rhodes hit penalties because I'm pretty sure martin does. That definitely makes a difference in these debates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Stevie May put himself about quite well against England I thought. Was disappointed not to see him at any point over the 2 games this week.Agree to an extent but it's really hard to make a case for him given his sh*te debut season so far at Wednesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Martin has spiked in terms of goalscoring in the last season and a half (before that he was nowhere). My worry with him is he's just a very average striker experiencing a leap in form/chances, like mackail smith a few years back McCormack is a different player, a bit of a bulldog, but his goalscoring is very erratic Rhodes has scored 20+ for 5 seasons running, coming up for 6, with one 40+ season. We have no other player like him (expect witty reply saying 'thankfully') I'd probably agree about Martin in what you say, but it doesn't really matter what his base level as a player is or if he's peaking for a couple of years, I'm only concerned about the next game, if his form falls off a cliff next season then we don't pick him and pick someone who's better at that time. But just now I'd say he's a better option. Remember also though that there are 46 games in the Championship, scoring 20+ goals isn't as great as it might normally sound in most leagues. I'm not saying Rhodes is terrible or that he should never be involved, just trying to get people to look more objectively at what he and others bring, and not be taken in by this myth that seems to have surrounded him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav-ffc Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 After what I seen from Rhodes today j would take griffiths instead of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I'd probably agree about Martin in what you say, but it doesn't really matter what his base level as a player is or if he's peaking for a couple of years, I'm only concerned about the next game, if his form falls off a cliff next season then we don't pick him and pick someone who's better at that time. But just now I'd say he's a better option. Remember also though that there are 46 games in the Championship, scoring 20+ goals isn't as great as it might normally sound in most leagues. I'm not saying Rhodes is terrible or that he should never be involved, just trying to get people to look more objectively at what he and others bring, and not be taken in by this myth that seems to have surrounded him. Re 20+ goals in a 46 game season - fair dos, but the point still stands, we have nobody else even close to this level of consistency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 After what I seen from Rhodes today j would take griffiths instead of him.How many goals or assists for Scotland has Griffiths had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The problem with Martin is he seems to be towing a caravan, when I've seen him for Scotland admittedly,not seen much of Derby ,really lacks the movement we require in my uneducated opinion. McCormack is like a slower version of Naismith, really intelligent footballer. Played some cracking stuff for Leeds, setting up and scoring goals. Could tell right away the move to Fulham wasn't going to work out for him. Rhodes is a goal scorer, can't put it any other way. Don't see much of Blackburn but the stats speak for themselves. Linked up well with Fletcher today, think he needs to step up a level in his club career now to really prove himself. Stevie May is still young, certainly not writing him off. Next year is a big season for him . Liked what I saw when he came on against England. Would have him in ahead of Martin, weird because Martin totally out scores him in the same league but May's movement and technical skill will fit more into our system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The problem with Martin is he seems to be towing a caravan, when I've seen him for Scotland admittedly,not seen much of Derby ,really lacks the movement we require in my uneducated opinion. McCormack is like a slower version of Naismith, really intelligent footballer. Played some cracking stuff for Leeds, setting up and scoring goals. Could tell right away the move to Fulham wasn't going to work out for him. Rhodes is a goal scorer, can't put it any other way. Don't see much of Blackburn but the stats speak for themselves. Linked up well with Fletcher today, think he needs to step up a level in his club career now to really prove himself. Stevie May is still young, certainly not writing him off. Next year is a big season for him . Liked what I saw when he came on against England. Would have him in ahead of Martin, weird because Martin totally out scores him in the same league but May's movement and technical skill will fit more into our system. This. Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The problem with Martin is he seems to be towing a caravan, when I've seen him for Scotland admittedly,not seen much of Derby ,really lacks the movement we require in my uneducated opinion. McCormack is like a slower version of Naismith, really intelligent footballer. Played some cracking stuff for Leeds, setting up and scoring goals. Could tell right away the move to Fulham wasn't going to work out for him. Rhodes is a goal scorer, can't put it any other way. Don't see much of Blackburn but the stats speak for themselves. Linked up well with Fletcher today, think he needs to step up a level in his club career now to really prove himself. Stevie May is still young, certainly not writing him off. Next year is a big season for him . Liked what I saw when he came on against England. Would have him in ahead of Martin, weird because Martin totally out scores him in the same league but May's movement and technical skill will fit more into our system. No matter what we think of Martin/May/Rhodes, you've highlighted a crucial point in the Rhodes debate, that just because someone is scoring goals at that level does not mean he is what we are looking for, or that he will be an effective player for us. In every game - except Gibraltar, which we'd win regardless - our striker is picked to do a specific job for the team. The job of our striker is not to bang in goals, it's to help the team score goals and he should be picked on that basis. If he doesn't score but helps create goals - like Fletcher's pass in Poland, or Naismith winning the free-kick against Ireland which lead to the corner and goal, then they've done their job. Consistently scoring a goal every 2 games in the Championship is good, but if you're offering little else then you're not likely to get picked. I think Strachan sees Martin as offering more in all round play than Rhodes, which is why he gets a game over him, although so far we haven't seen much of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Christ that's a couple of balanced and sensible posts in a row. Some sort of a record? I'll get things back on track. That Ritchie boy was shite. No need for England rejects anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Christ that's a couple of balanced and sensible posts in a row. Some sort of a record? I'll get things back on track. That Ritchie boy was shite. No need for England rejects anyway! Haha, beat me to it. Far too balanced! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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