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Bul21402

The same old same old topic

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Does anyone think that Junior football is well run?

no its not well run but your posts are smacking of your team is massive in juniors..as much as I have affiliation with bankie lads I am not gonna call you a big club yet,most your fans know your not big fish..not saying kilbirnie are by the way..nobody in junior circles thinks it's run well apart from the beaks.. yes your support is decent!yes your potentially massive to juniors.but everyone deserves a vote.hurlford used to be one man and a dug at there games .our biggest crowd of season was them.just shows you don't it cause ten year ago they were laughable

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We are a tiny club but things need changed or we`ll become smaller!

Kick off times,fixtures and league structures are killing the game.

The needs of clubs like Talbot,Linlithgow,Kilbirnie,Pollok etc are totally different from District League teams.

Change is needed but its something that Junior football isnt good at.

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The majority of clubs are all but amateur and don't really care about things like fixtures or gate money because it makes no difference to them.

Whilst its 1 club 1 vote nothing will ever change.

They do care about gate money though most don't really need a hellava lot of cash as they don't pay wages.They also don't really bother if games are postponed as they don't have a big weekly wage bill to cover.You only have to read Kennies posts when getting shot of the sectional league cups are brought up...the games against Talbot, Cumnock are the most important games to his club which they have every season without having to earn them.

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Most set ups now recognise that the smaller clubs shouldn't have the same say as the top clubs.There's usually a graded voting system in place as is the case in the SPFL and the English Football League.

The Super League clubs don't want year round 2pm kick offs and want better fixture arranging along with an increase in the gate prices.Why haven't they got them?

The top league is too small but the only way to fix it would be to do away with the Ayrshire District League an have all in West Region Leagues.This was actually voted for but because the West secretary didn't want it he found a technicality and got his pals to make sure all the small clubs voted it down on a re-vote.You couldn't make it up!!

Don't you think the 'smaller clubs' as you put it want better fixture arranging? Don't you think 'smaller clubs' want an increase in gate prices? ........... oh , I forgot , the 'smaller clubs' don't really care about gate money according to you.

I find it interesting that you seem to blame all that's wrong with our game on the smaller clubs. I'm guessing that your frustrated that after about 10 years in the juniors , your club have failed to live up to your expectations of winning super leagues , scottish cups etc , although you did go close on one occasion , and of course this season where you'll do well to avoid relegation. It's only human nature I suppose to vent your frustration at someone 'weaker' than yourself when things don't go your way.

When your club were in the seniors for 30 odd years, you guys were , with respect , for the most part a 'smaller club' & had lots of ups & downs , from getting to the semi final of the scottish cup I seem to remember , a few victories against the old firm etc, but as I said , you were a 'smaller club' for the most part.

Your fans should be commended for rallying round through all the ups & downs , the ES Clydebank episode , the saga of the sale of your ground , the long , hard times of groundsharing with Dumbarton & Morton etc , then all that Airdrie stuff which you don't need reminded of.

Whether you like it or not , you were a 'smaller club' in the seniors & after everything that's happened to your club I find it quite distasteful for you to see fit to blame 'smaller clubs' for holding you back. That's another question? Holding you back from what exactly? Going senior? It's not junior footballs fault that your not a senior team anymore.

And as for 'smaller clubs' rubbing their hands when Clydebank turn up with a hundred fans or so ,I'm sure your treasurer back in your senior days would be doing likewise when the old firm showed up at Kilbowie on league business.

This alone shows the hypocrisy of your earlier posts.

Listen , I'm not anti Clydebank , I've got the greatest respect for the spirit shown by you guys to keep the club alive. I actually attended one of your many fundraisers back in those dark , dark days.

Right at the start of this thread I suggested running the season from April to October / November. This would allow a full fixture list to be drawn up , regular income for ALL clubs & might even allow 'smaller clubs' to flourish & make a step away from being 'amateur' & pay their players.

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Don't you think the 'smaller clubs' as you put it want better fixture arranging? Don't you think 'smaller clubs' want an increase in gate prices? ........... oh , I forgot , the 'smaller clubs' don't really care about gate money according to you.

( well they clearly don't because they voted against these things)

I find it interesting that you seem to blame all that's wrong with our game on the smaller clubs. I'm guessing that your frustrated that after about 10 years in the juniors , your club have failed to live up to your expectations of winning super leagues , scottish cups etc , although you did go close on one occasion , and of course this season where you'll do well to avoid relegation. It's only human nature I suppose to vent your frustration at someone 'weaker' than yourself when things don't go your way.

(I couldn't care less if we`re winning things regularly although I would suggest that winning 4 trophies in the last 3 years isn't that bad.The reason for Junior football not introducing much needed new rules is largely down to the smaller clubs, you might not want to hear that but its the truth)

When your club were in the seniors for 30 odd years, you guys were , with respect , for the most part a 'smaller club' & had lots of ups & downs , from getting to the semi final of the scottish cup I seem to remember , a few victories against the old firm etc, but as I said , you were a 'smaller club' for the most part.

Your fans should be commended for rallying round through all the ups & downs , the ES Clydebank episode , the saga of the sale of your ground , the long , hard times of groundsharing with Dumbarton & Morton etc , then all that Airdrie stuff which you don't need reminded of.

Whether you like it or not , you were a 'smaller club' in the seniors & after everything that's happened to your club I find it quite distasteful for you to see fit to blame 'smaller clubs' for holding you back. That's another question? Holding you back from what exactly? Going senior? It's not junior footballs fault that your not a senior team anymore.

And as for 'smaller clubs' rubbing their hands when Clydebank turn up with a hundred fans or so ,I'm sure your treasurer back in your senior days would be doing likewise when the old firm showed up at Kilbowie on league business.

This alone shows the hypocrisy of your earlier posts.

(Its not about holding us back,its about allowing us to keep going at a decent level and paying players for their greatly appreciated efforts)

Listen , I'm not anti Clydebank , I've got the greatest respect for the spirit shown by you guys to keep the club alive. I actually attended one of your many fundraisers back in those dark , dark days.

Right at the start of this thread I suggested running the season from April to October / November. This would allow a full fixture list to be drawn up , regular income for ALL clubs & might even allow 'smaller clubs' to flourish & make a step away from being 'amateur' & pay their players.

(I would give summer football a try,what have we got to lose?)

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Now that is what we really need. Another debate about 'summer football'.

We haven't had one for ..............Hmmmm let me see. Oh just about a week or so.

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Now that is what we really need. Another debate about 'summer football'.

We haven't had one for ..............Hmmmm let me see. Oh just about a week or so.

If you go back & read the OP it's about fixture chaos & clubs not getting regular income.

Summer football is obviously an option.

Anyway , April to Oct/Nov isn't exactly summer is it?

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All that is needed is better planing by match sec as he causes same problems every year even wth midweek games

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Have deliberately not posted further for a few days to gauge the feelings of the posters on here and , in general, all/most are agreed that the following is about where we are:

1) advance notice of fixtures is not adequate

2) fixture secretary has a long history of , potential, self inteterest or favouritism

3) lack of combined action on a coordinated basis has meant it hasn't changed

This is something that has been discussed by not just fans at Cumnock and I am trying to get like minded folk at each club to speak with the officials etc at their club and get them to agree to approach the West region to put this on the agenda at the next agm so it needs to be discussed and then , hopefully, get this man removed and someone else in the post and then move that forward to addressing the need to get a full season fixture list in place, or at very worst, have at least 4-6 weeks fixtures known so clubs can maximise income from sponsorship, catering etc

While I think the person in charge of the fixtures is not Fit For Purpose, sorting the fixture system needs to be done as a matter of urgency and that will need all member clubs to make their feelings known

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Those with long memories might recall jimmy Harrison who was league fixtures secretary for Central League up until mid 90's. I don't remember there being anything like the level of complaints on scheduling in his day. When he retired a chap from Shotts took over for one season and it was a shambles.

The present incumbent replaced him and there were few complaints about fixtures in his early years as I recall, but it was only the Centrasl League at that time. The change to the west region seems to have been when the present situation arose, arguably it is more difficult now with greater distances for clubs in Superleagues to travel for some fixtures. However no excuse for sending teams as far apart as Dunipace and lets say, Greenock, for a midweek fixture with a 6-30pm kick-off.

If a suitably experienced and competent person was to stand for the position I have no doubt he would quite easily get the votes needed to get the job, but where is he?

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How far in advance do the East Region clubs tend to have known fixtures?

It's working weekly at the moment - IIRC, we tend to get a splurge at the the beginning and the end of season

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Think the Clydebank fan has a point here - don't see why he's being attacked. Small clubs with minimal attendances will be less bothered by gate income, cash from programme sales and match sponsorship, and so on - and therefore are probably less bothered about only getting their fixture the previous weekend. And they are more likely to be in the district leagues (and the West Region doesn't cover a huge area anyway), so things like arranging coaches in advance is less of not an issue. Same sort of situation as 2pm kickoffs, 3rd Saturday in July rule, floodlights ban, September holiday weekends, U-turn on West Region reconstruction, etc. etc.

Ultimately the LL has a season-long fixturelist, the EOSL has half-season lists, the SOSL has theirs out to the end of the season and so on. Even the North Juniors tend to have theirs out further in advance, IIRC. Only real differences seem to be the Junior Cup and the non-use of floodlights.

North Juniors seem to have a more liberal view on artificial light, and most of their clubs go out of the Junior Cup in the early rounds in the autumn; meanwhile in the senior leagues only the South Challenge Cup has priority over league games, and full use is made of floodlight.

Edited by HibeeJibee

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Well what's your explanation? Take 2pm kickoffs an as example - most seem to agree they hurt crowds and are caused by small clubs wanting home early?!

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Give it four years till I retire and I'll do it with a pencil and notepad. Get the furthest distance away games played on a Saturday early in the season, allowing for cup ties teams play home and away every two weeks and only in exceptional circumstances to teams play twice before they have played everyone else once. How hard can it be, we put men on the moon nearly 50 years ago but can't run a 14 team league.

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Guest svejk

Small clubs with minimal attendances won't be bothered by gate income, cash from programme sales and match sponsorship, and so on - and therefore probably aren't bothered about only getting their fixture the previous weekend. And they are more likely to be in the district leagues (and the West Region doesn't cover a huge area anyway), so things like arranging coaches in advance is not an issue.

You seem to be stating the above as fact. Can you provide the evidence that "small" clubs "won't be bothered" ?

From a Forth Wanderers perspective, and I'm assuming we fall into your neat generalisation of a "small" club, I can assure you we certainly are bothered by lack of gate income, programme sales, match sponsorship etc. and would love advance notice of fixtures.

Thanks for the condescension though...

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You seem to be stating the above as fact. Can you provide the evidence that "small" clubs "won't be bothered" ?

From a Forth Wanderers perspective, and I'm assuming we fall into your neat generalisation of a "small" club, I can assure you we certainly are bothered by lack of gate income, programme sales, match sponsorship etc. and would love advance notice of fixtures.

Thanks for the condescension though...

Fair point, insofar as reading it back it sounds like I mean every smaller club (yes - a generalisation), and they all won't be bothered at all, which is clearly unlikely. However, I do think such matters bother a lot of the smaller clubs less than the bigger ones, and bother a lot of them to sufficiently less of a degree that they'll be happy with it as the way it is. Other people have ascribed that to other matters like 2pm, reconstruction, and the holiday weekends, too.

But I may be wrong. That's just my view.

Infact, let's say I am wrong - and the smaller clubs are bothered by it as much as the bigger clubs are. That would mean that most clubs were bothered by it. In which case... why hasn't something been done about it?

Edited by HibeeJibee

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Think the Clydebank fan has a point here - don't see why he's being attacked. Small clubs with minimal attendances won't be bothered by gate income, cash from programme sales and match sponsorship, and so on - and therefore probably aren't bothered about only getting their fixture the previous weekend.

HJ, seriously? <_<

Small clubs with tiny attendances still have bills to pay, and every little extra meaning it's not coming out of the committee's pockets or another fund raiser is never, ever something they aren't as bothered about as the bigger ones.

There isn't a club in the land from amateur upwards that isn't paying close attention to the pennies - "the Corinthian spirit" died long before they began selling replica chocolate & pink replica strips on match days. ;)

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Small clubs with tiny attendances still have bills to pay, and every little extra meaning it's not coming out of the committee's pockets or another fund raiser is never, ever something they aren't as bothered about as the bigger ones.

Ok, ok.

But they voted to keep 2pm kos?

And to repeat - Infact, let's say I am wrong - and the smaller clubs are bothered by it as much as the bigger clubs are. That would mean that most clubs were bothered by it. In which case... why hasn't something been done about it?

Edited by HibeeJibee

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