Premier League B team Plan in England

[Ross.]

They do it in Germany as well. From memory they can go no higher than 3rd tier. They have pretty stringent rules, 6 players must be U24, no more than 3 non European players etc etc

As long as there are rules and guidelines that make it beneficial to the game overall and not just particular clubs, then I wouldn't see it as an entirely bad idea. We know what the folk running our game are like though so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Yes, but I think he wanted to cap their ascent at tier 3.

While people are correct to say that the likes of Spain, Germany and recently Portugal allow such teams (although they don't seem to be very popular or well attended) it's equally true to say that they aren't allowed in the likes of Italy, France and Ukraine?

I also believe places like Austria and Switzerland have been 'clamping down' on them.

I've tried looking at the Swiss league in full a few times and the structure gets a bit messy when you drop below the top two divisions. Some teams had 2nd, 3rd and 4th teams playing in the regional leagues, which seemed a bit much. I have a friend who plays for Lenzburg "2". Lenzburg are probably similar some of the highland league sides in terms of size, but have 3 sides playing in the league structure.

[HibeeJibee]

In the past the authorities have always either framed it in a way just designed for OF or which would ruin things for part-time clubs. On the back of the stitch-up which Topping & Doncaster got through McLeish's report - the one envisaging 10-team SPL - the initial idea was to regionalise what is now SPFL1&2 and add Rangers B & Celtic B, for a pair of 12-team divisions. That got the backs of other Premiership clubs up so it became a pair of 16-team divisions with 6 B teams in each!!

More recently David Longmuir proposed an alternative to the abortive 12-12[8-8-8]-18 plan, which saw 2 divisions of 10 kept instead of 1 large division 18. Yet he did not suggest adding 2 ambitious non-league clubs... he wanted to add Rangers B & Celtic B. At that point Rangers had only just got out of SPFL2!! It's not going to help clubs, it uses places non-league clubs could take, fans would be against it, and it's always framed around OF. Hence the "no" from me.

[Staggie52]

Imagine, if you dare, 10 Celtic v Sevco league games plus cups a season, every one televised with an accompaniment of sectarian sing alongs. No thanks.

[williemillersmoustache]

Anyone who mentions colt teams north of the border should be placed in a large sack full of starved and preferably angry ferrets, then thrown in the Forth.

[nsr]

Why not have the big teams associate themselves with a (relatively) local smaller team and make use of a sort of parent/feeder club arrangement? Celtic and Sevco would be an ideal pairing.

[thisal]

Just bumping this back up the page so the fanny who started another thread can find it.

[mrman2011]

It's a great idea as this helps scottish young talent

Play more and develop

And say a celtic 21 year old gets released he would have played 40-50 games in league 2, so would be experienced then he would be in the current system

[Antiochas III]

Why not have the big teams associate themselves with a (relatively) local smaller team and make use of a sort of parent/feeder club arrangement? Celtic and Sevco would be an ideal pairing.

Tbf that's how a fair few B and C teams in Spain began.

Again if done then it should open to anyone, in any league. If Celtic want it, fine, if Albion Rovers want it, then that's fine too. They should of course start at the very bottom - and I don't mean League 2. There are clubs in Spain that get less fans through the gate than most League 1 sides here that have B teams.

[Mr Bairn]

It's a great idea as this helps scottish young talent

Play more and develop

And say a celtic 21 year old gets released he would have played 40-50 games in league 2, so would be experienced then he would be in the current system

And yet you look at the Spanish teams and they're full of journeymen in their late 20s and early 30s that have no chance of ever making the first team and are content to see out their careers in the colt sides rather than move to a comparable "first" team.

These clubs often have well over 100 players on their books, and I don't mean including the youth system. Their first team squad will be 30/35 players, then their next bunch will be shipped out on loan, and only then do we find the guys that get sent to play for the B team.

By all means have B teams, but have a reserve league so they compete with each other rather than anyone else's first team. Simple.

[Antiochas III]

And yet you look at the Spanish teams and they're full of journeymen in their late 20s and early 30s that have no chance of ever making the first team and are content to see out their careers in the colt sides rather than move to a comparable "first" team.

These clubs often have well over 100 players on their books, and I don't mean including the youth system. Their first team squad will be 30/35 players, then their next bunch will be shipped out on loan, and only then do we find the guys that get sent to play for the B team.

By all means have B teams, but have a reserve league so they compete with each other rather than anyone else's first team. Simple.

You actually don't know anything about the B system in Spain do you? B teams are u23 sides, that may have U25's if on a pro contract. While C teams are even lower. So who are these journeyman?

Also which Spanish A sides have 100s of players, since you don't include Youth System you can not include the C teams of Real and Barça

Portugal allow 3 over 23's in their squad.

[Sergeant Wilson]

I noticed that it's already in place further down the English pyramid. Southern League teams have reserves in local leagues. They also have dual registration meaning a player can play for two clubs if they are a few divisions apart. Apparently some play on a Saturday for their big team and play midweek a bit more locally.

[PFC2011]

I noticed that it's already in place further down the English pyramid. Southern League teams have reserves in local leagues. They also have dual registration meaning a player can play for two clubs if they are a few divisions apart. Apparently some play on a Saturday for their big team and play midweek a bit more locally.

It's already in place here too - both Spartans & Stirling Uni have reserve teams in the East of Scotland League.

[Sergeant Wilson]

It's already in place here too - both Spartans & Stirling Uni have reserve teams in the East of Scotland League.

I'd forgotten about them. So if the principle is established then.

[HibeeJibee]

I don't think you can say those 2 teams establish a precedent or a principle and my understanding is they can't be promoted into LL if their first team ever get promoted into SPFL2.

They're only in EOSL as there isn't anywhere else to play other than another grade (e.g. Amateurs / Juniors - as Spartans did).

Berwick also had a team in EOSL, as there was nowhere else for us to go, but we removed it last summer when SPFL U19s became the SPFL Development League East. That allowed us to play over-age players.

I'd like to see some kind of equivalent put in place for LL/EOS/SOS clubs as currently their 2nd teams are spread about willy-nilly:

* EOSL - Spartans, Stirling Uni

* EOS U20s - East Kilbride, Edinburgh City, Edinburgh Uni, Heriot-Watt Uni, Leith Athletic, Selkirk, Spartans, Whitehill Welfare

* SYFA U21s - BSCG?, Edinburgh Uni, Leith Athletic, Tynecastle

* Amateurs - Civil Service, Coldstream, East Kilbride, Edinburgh Uni, Eyemouth?, Gala Fairydean Rovers, Heriot-Watt Uni, Spartans, Stirling Uni, Tynecastle

[parsforlife]

Could maybe even just have them playing in the spfl development regional leagues.

[HibeeJibee]

Potentially aye, there aren't many teams in the SPFL East & West Development leagues anyway.

Although the EOS U20s play Friday nights (except the Unis), and the others play Saturdays so that might cause issues for venues and player availability.

Up north they have an Aberdeenshire U20 League playing on Monday nights, and Formartine Utd seem to have an amateur team.

[PFC2011]

I don't think you can say those 2 teams establish a precedent or a principle and my understanding is they can't be promoted into LL if their first team ever get promoted into SPFL2.

They're only in EOSL as there isn't anywhere else to play other than another grade (e.g. Amateurs / Juniors - as Spartans did).

Berwick also had a team in EOSL, as there was nowhere else for us to go, but we removed it last summer when SPFL U19s became the SPFL Development League East. That allowed us to play over-age players.

I'd like to see some kind of equivalent put in place for LL/EOS/SOS clubs as currently their 2nd teams are spread about willy-nilly:

* EOSL - Spartans, Stirling Uni

* EOS U20s - East Kilbride, Edinburgh City, Edinburgh Uni, Heriot-Watt Uni, Leith Athletic, Selkirk, Spartans, Whitehill Welfare

* SYFA U21s - BSCG?, Edinburgh Uni, Leith Athletic, Tynecastle

* Amateurs - Civil Service, Coldstream, East Kilbride, Edinburgh Uni, Eyemouth?, Gala Fairydean Rovers, Heriot-Watt Uni, Spartans, Stirling Uni, Tynecastle

Perhaps not, but they are still the reserve sides of the aforementioned clubs and compete in the present Scottish pyramid system.

There is nothing to stop anybody else applying and entering a B side. I also haven't seen any guidance stating who can and can't obtain promotion.

[mrman2011]

Look at Spain and Germany the leading sides in world football, they have B sides of which a majority of their national sides have come though it

It would be beneficial for Celtic and Rangers having B teams in either SPL 2 or lowland leagues, having their under 23 play competitive football where results matter will aid there development much more, it would work hand in hand with loans

Imagine East Kilbride going to play Celtic B at Parkhead, a stuff dreams are made of

[~~~]

Imagine East Kilbride going to play Celtic B at Parkhead, a stuff dreams are made of

Even if we did have a B team in the lower leagues, not in a millions years would they be playing home games at Parkhead

You'd be look at either Lennoxtown or Airdrie again.

[Uncle Psychosis]

Look at Spain and Germany the leading sides in world football, they have B sides of which a majority of their national sides have come though it

This article suggests that B teams are not popular (or particularly helpful) in Germany:

http://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/923-Europe/598-the-killer-bs

This would seem to be a particularly relevant complaint:

The sheer unpredictability of a B team line-up, which may include a convalescent Lars Ricken or Bastian Schweinsteiger one week, but a horde of untried 19-year-olds the next, unfairly distorts key promotion and relegation issues. In May 2005, Werder Bremen delegated Nelson Valdez, whose two goals had sunk Valencia in the Champions League, to their reserves to help them avoid relegation from the Regionalliga. Valdez scored a hat-trick in a 4-2 win at Borussia Dortmund II; Bremen II stayed up, Chemnitzer FC went down.