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mick90

Does Pyramid p/o mean end of SJFA ?

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This Pyramid System isn't well thought through.

Unless every club involved in the Pyramid is Licensed then it's pointless.

Erm no, a system that has higher criteria as you move up the leagues is exactly what you want. Crazy to suggest otherwise.

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Erm no, a system that has higher criteria as you move up the leagues is exactly what you want. Crazy to suggest otherwise.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a Pyramid what I'm saying is there are going to be a lot of teams in it who won't be able to move up to a higher level.

The SoS for example might only have 2 Licensed teams in it after this season.

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I'm not saying there shouldn't be a Pyramid what I'm saying is there are going to be a lot of teams in it who won't be able to move up to a higher level.

The SoS for example might only have 2 Licensed teams in it after this season.

The point is though that those who want to can. As opposed to the current situation where those who want to can't.

The thing is what it is. I'm just highlighting that intransigence on the part of junior clubs is only part of the problem.

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There won't be an influx though. Clubs are being actively discouraged by the way they are led at the top and on top of that they are naturally conservative anyway.

To be clear, the juniors are trying to set up their own joined up league covering the same territory as the lowland league, with indeterminate criteria around joining. But they will be different criteria from their LL counterpart. And the governance will be by the SJFA. Given that the stated position of the junior governing body is "not opposed to a pyramid in principle", how does that stance line up against trying to establish their own competitor league?

I can't agree that "the juniors" are doing any such thing.

It seems to be the appointed officials who are persisting in trying to push through this idea despite the fact that most clubs that would be expected to take part - especially in the West Region - are at best uninterested and at worst vehemently opposed!

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Let's not get caught up in semantics. I said "trying" and that is absolutely true.

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The point is though that those who want to can. As opposed to the current situation where those who want to can't.

The thing is what it is. I'm just highlighting that intransigence on the part of junior clubs is only part of the problem.

Wouldn't it have been better if the SFA spent a bit longer in setting up a system that included the Juniors and helping more clubs through the licensing process?

The current set up won't work without having the Juniors or more licensed EoS and SoS clubs.

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The current set up is working and is live. The haste at which it was established was unhelpful but that wasn't helped by the attitude taken by the juniors as a body . In any case, all the help in the world probably wouldn't have made any difference because as we have seen since, Ayrshire clubs in particular are not keen on playing outside Ayrshire - at least based on the feedback on here. And many far less wealthy LL clubs are managing to secure a club licence without "help".

What was needed was an SFA dictat to mandate the unification of non league semi professional football. They chose not to do that so we have what we have. I think that suits them just fine but I also think the juniors will continue to wither.

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The current set up is working and is live. The haste at which it was established was unhelpful but that wasn't helped by the attitude taken by the juniors as a body . In any case, all the help in the world probably wouldn't have made any difference because as we have seen since, Ayrshire clubs in particular are not keen on playing outside Ayrshire - at least based on the feedback on here. And many far less wealthy LL clubs are managing to secure a club licence without "help".

What was needed was an SFA dictat to mandate the unification of non league semi professional football. They chose not to do that so we have what we have. I think that suits them just fine but I also think the juniors will continue to wither.

I agree with this but what gets me is the continual belief that because there is a long history in the Juniors then it will continue to be so. It's so blinkered. If nothing else that pyramid set up should show that the SFA are moving on and putting one hand over one eye won't save the Juniors. It's all very sad.

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How far south can you go though before it becomes impractical? Brora to Dundee is already a huge distance for a regional structure. Including everything from Dunfermline up would add only a few clubs - particularly at the top level and would probably kill them off unless there was a significant level of support with travel costs.

And there would still be a massive imbalance.

Everything is fine as long as the Juniors don't seek licences. The minute they do the whole thing becomes very lopsided.

True but it'll be no different to when Bishop Stortford played in the conference north a few years ago. If the SFA are willing to subsidise travel costs for central belt clubs surely that'll go someway to convincing clubs to ply their trade in the northern section?

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I agree with this but what gets me is the continual belief that because there is a long history in the Juniors then it will continue to be so. It's so blinkered. If nothing else that pyramid set up should show that the SFA are moving on and putting one hand over one eye won't save the Juniors. It's all very sad.

Agreed. I think the juniors were shat on 2 years ago but that doesn't mean that things couldn't have been done in the period since then. Nothing has changed because there is no desire for change. So the grade will continue to decline as the pyramid is embedded and clubs like BSC and Soccer AM bypass the structure and the standards that exists in our grade in favour of one where fixture lists are the norm, decent facilities are the norm and a club with ambition can achieve its potential without someone saying "you'll never be good enough so don't even try".

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The juniors will survive, they always have and always will...from the massive crowds of the '50s to the scattering of people watching that there is today.Juniors are predominantly amateur ran by people who take nothing for their time and labour...as long as that continues the juniors will continue. Where they will be in the big scheme of things is open to debate, perhaps even outside the jurisdiction of the SFA. Some clubs may leave but the juniors are like one big family and will stick together no matter the consequences. Can't see them ever willingly joining any set up that means abolishion of a grade that has lasted over a century.

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The juniors will survive, they always have and always will...from the massive crowds of the '50s to the scattering of people watching that there is today.Juniors are predominantly amateur ran by people who take nothing for their time and labour...as long as that continues the juniors will continue. Where they will be in the big scheme of things is open to debate, perhaps even outside the jurisdiction of the SFA. Some clubs may leave but the juniors are like one big family and will stick together no matter the consequences. Can't see them ever willingly joining any set up that means abolishion of a grade that has lasted over a century.

But what set up would ever put an end to 'junior' football? Clubs of that size are going to exist no matter what, does it really matter what the league they play in is called?

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Rather than having the juniors as a tier below the lowland league, when I think it's quite obvious the top junior teams are better than the lowland league teams, why not have the LL as a side by side part of the pyramid aswell as EoS and SOS leagues. So east and west region juniors top division winners play off to be the "South region junior winners" (assuming the country is split north and south at Dundee). Then the winners of the "south region juniors" enter a 4 team play off vs LL, SOS and EOS, semi final, final. Winners are then south champions and face northern champions which would be the winners of the HL (I think judging by the difference in standards between HL/LL and north juniors/east&west juniors that a straight promotion and relegation from HL to north juniors is appropriate). Then the winners of this would play bottom of SPFL league 2.

Essentially meaning a team like Auchinleck if they won their league, would be 5 games from senior football.

To accommodate the licence issue there could be a relaxing of laws for a team's first year in the league until they get access to the extra funds. The funds must then be used for the purpose of achieving a licence before anything else.

The clubs relegated would then have much more scope to drop into the most appropriate geographical league.

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Rather than having the juniors as a tier below the lowland league, when I think it's quite obvious the top junior teams are better than the lowland league teams,

Err no. What makes you think that?

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Err no. What makes you think that?

Id say Auchinleck and Hurlford would beat any teams from the LL due to their performances against SPFL teams in recent years (I know spartans also done this).

At the very least they are of very similar standard, certainly not a division above or below

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Id say Auchinleck and Hurlford would beat any teams from the LL due to their performances against SPFL teams in recent years (I know spartans also done this).

At the very least they are of very similar standard, certainly not a division above or below

Just a reminder

Edinburgh City v Auchinleck

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Rather than having the juniors as a tier below the lowland league, when I think it's quite obvious the top junior teams are better than the lowland league teams, why not have the LL as a side by side part of the pyramid aswell as EoS and SOS leagues. So east and west region juniors top division winners play off to be the "South region junior winners" (assuming the country is split north and south at Dundee). Then the winners of the "south region juniors" enter a 4 team play off vs LL, SOS and EOS, semi final, final. Winners are then south champions and face northern champions which would be the winners of the HL (I think judging by the difference in standards between HL/LL and north juniors/east&west juniors that a straight promotion and relegation from HL to north juniors is appropriate). Then the winners of this would play bottom of SPFL league 2.

Essentially meaning a team like Auchinleck if they won their league, would be 5 games from senior football.

To accommodate the licence issue there could be a relaxing of laws for a team's first year in the league until they get access to the extra funds. The funds must then be used for the purpose of achieving a licence before anything else.

The clubs relegated would then have much more scope to drop into the most appropriate geographical league.

The juniors have zero bargaining power. Anything that is built on ifs, buts, coulds and shoulds has sailed. These clubs that are securing licences are raising their own money. The juniors have the same access levels as anyone else.

There won't be any dilution of a single tier lowland league - certainly not whilst the juniors insist on non integration and their clubs refuse to move beyond current borders.

On that basis, nobody will get a licence and Linlithgow may have theirs withdrawn.

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Just a reminder

Edinburgh City v Auchinleck

Haha knew this was coming :)

Yes obviously there will be variances now n then. Just like Greenock Morton would beat Spartans 9 times out of 10.

Still though, Edinburgh are the best team in this seasons LL and won 2-1 against 10 men talbot. Would the bottom team in the LL beat Talbot most of the time? Because really that should be the criteria.

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The criteria should be the best teams that meet the required standards, which is exactly the case barring Linlithgow who for aren't in on there own accord.

Doesn't matter if you have the best first team in the world, can't meet the off-field standards you remain where you are until you get your house in order.

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