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mick90

Does Pyramid p/o mean end of SJFA ?

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I am a huge Junior fan.

Groundhopper.

Ex player and coaching at top East Levels.

AM Soccers proposal IS the way forward.

A fine business plan and a very good model.

The amount I contribute to make my son the next Messi hopefully will be worth it :angel

In all seriousness I expect they actually generate a substantial profit.

My only concern is the decision of where to be based out of.

They should not fight with an existing senior team (East Fife/Methil) when needing to create a brand new fan base.

If they were admitted and ran out of Cupar I for one would be a season ticket holder.

By all means defend the Junior system but no one in the Juniors has the right to belittle those that do want to progress.

If AM Soccer want to progress lets face it there is NO point in them joining the Juniors.

The ex coach who posted on Fife Football plays for Kennoway Star Hearts Juniors.

Edited by superbigal

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Go point Superbigal. Changes will come, in what format is not totally clear, but the constant negativity is depressing. Is it wrong to be ambitious and want to do well for your Club.

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Most of the teams in the ADL are utter dross, with no support, poor players and even worse facilities.

But strangely, it's taboo to criticise these teams as they are part of the "junior family" despite offering next to nothing to the overall junior game, whereas it's the order of the day to criticise Lowland League teams for daring to attempt to progress in the league structure.

Premier League Teams that had a spell in the ADL are -

Meadow, current premier league leaders,

Hurlford, current Scottish Cup holders.

Troon & Kilbirnie

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It's good to learn a new word like 'shitgibbon'. I'll need to try it out in work tomorrow on some poor unsuspecting shitgibbon.

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Mick, I read your post with interest expecting a lot but with more questions from it. One question is if the sfa say play in our pyramid or don't play then I am sure that they could be open to a legal challange of some description.

There has been various amounts posted about this 'pyramid' but frankly it leaves a lot to be desired. If you have it starting in the 'juniors' with the option to move up through a national north and south 'non league' to a confrence or into a 3rd division then it would be something I'd maybe support but those clubs in the 3rd division and above won't go for it hence the current situation.

Also with regards to your assumption that you know what goes on at evey club you are deluded and your agressive and personal attacks on folk such as glensmad is pointless and won't help you.

The comments about standards in the adl etc yes not the worlds best however when there has been a chronic underinvestment in football as a whole with those at the top taking the money then no wonder. If there was a single overall body wuth money filtered down accordingly to your league thhen that would help but I can't see it happening anytime soon as far to many self obbsessed folk running the game and the 'senior' clubs who are happy with the status quo and won't vote for Christmas.

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Does Pyramid p/o mean end of SJFA ?

On the contrary.

If SJFA joined the pyramid, and modernised, they could assimilate EOS/SOS and run everything between the 'pro game' and the Amateurs.

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I am a huge Junior fan.

Groundhopper.

Ex player and coaching at top East Levels.

AM Soccers proposal IS the way forward.

A fine business plan and a very good model.

The amount I contribute to make my son the next Messi hopefully will be worth it :angel

In all seriousness I expect they actually generate a substantial profit.

My only concern is the decision of where to be based out of.

They should not fight with an existing senior team (East Fife/Methil) when needing to create a brand new fan base.

If they were admitted and ran out of Cupar I for one would be a season ticket holder.

By all means defend the Junior system but no one in the Juniors has the right to belittle those that do want to progress.

If AM Soccer want to progress lets face it there is NO point in them joining the Juniors.

The ex coach who posted on Fife Football plays for Kennoway Star Hearts Juniors.

I am in no way saying it is not the way forward for clubs like AM Soccer to have a senior team. Clubs like this are great examples of hard working community clubs (we are also a community club by the way).

My point is what is there to attract junior clubs to the Lowland League at the moment. We have discussed it as a committee on many occasions looking at the pros and cons and we are not sure that the additional traveling costs could be currently be accommodated. It is something I'm sure most junior clubs feel the same but I am also something clubs will continue to monitor.

My main point about lack of support is not a criticism but more a statement of fact. When clubs like Auchinleck, Clydebank and Pollok (for example the crowd for Arthurlie v Pollok last season was 900+) come to Barrhead not only do they bring a good away support but our own support are more likely to turn out, but when Newmains came it was a very poor crowd. Why leave junior football where teams are local and have better support than some of the lowland league teams. Teams like BSC are yet to establish their own identity but I don't see where the additional supporters are going to come from (I maybe wrong)

I do think Junior football has to change and I would like to see more interaction with the lowland league (wether that be becoming a feeder should be discussed) but I do know that we need to promote the game better, improve facilities and make sure that clubs all work towards the community club status.

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The future supporters of Broomhill and Rossvale and Gartcairn will come from current players and players from the past. There are 600 players at Rossvale 300 plus at Gartcairn, Broomhill will be round about 500-600 players. Whats killing us is no home park as I'm sure Broomhill will have the same problem.However Broomhill have ambitious plans, we move into Huntershill in August 2016. We are all new to this but slowly building a base. We all need a chance to grow, it isnt going to happen overnight. We all are 50-100 years behind most teams but people expect it to happen overnight.

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The future supporters of Broomhill and Rossvale and Gartcairn will come from current players and players from the past. There are 600 players at Rossvale 300 plus at Gartcairn, Broomhill will be round about 500-600 players. Whats killing us is no home park as I'm sure Broomhill will have the same problem.However Broomhill have ambitious plans, we move into Huntershill in August 2016. We are all new to this but slowly building a base. We all need a chance to grow, it isnt going to happen overnight. We all are 50-100 years behind most teams but people expect it to happen overnight.

That's my point. I agree that's where your supporters will come from and tbh rossvale are one of the clubs we look up to in terms of their set up. I have also visited Spartans this season and I know we are looking to use what these clubs have done in terms of moving our youth set up forward.

But this thread is about the pyramid just now. I said that we won't know for 5/10 years if the pyramid is working. Junior clubs have more to lose Imo by leaving behind what we currently have without know what is in front of us.

Funding was brought up earlier and iirc most of the lowland league club had better access to funding through things like the Scottish Football Partnership due to their 'Senior' status. But clubs like mine do not have access to as much money to improve our facilities. It might be worthwhile for the SFA to come out and explain to all clubs why they see the long term goal as. Is it the lowland/highland league with nothing below it? Or is it a case of looking at incorporating current structures into it. There is not enough clarity for junior clubs to make a decision imo.

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Funding was brought up earlier and iirc most of the lowland league club had better access to funding through things like the Scottish Football Partnership due to their 'Senior' status. But clubs like mine do not have access to as much money to improve our facilities. It might be worthwhile for the SFA to come out and explain to all clubs why they see the long term goal as. Is it the lowland/highland league with nothing below it? Or is it a case of looking at incorporating current structures into it. There is not enough clarity for junior clubs to make a decision imo.

Sorry you don't remember correctly. We had no funding from any source in order to get our license by being a senior (no " " needed) club. All the extra expenditure needed to jump through the license hoops had to be budgeted from our normal fund raising activities.

You don't need a youth set up to get an entry level license as we didn't have any youth teams when we got ours awarded. We now have a youth set up partly funded through funding available to everybody (Peoples Millions).

Edited by Cicero

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Go point Superbigal. Changes will come, in what format is not totally clear, but the constant negativity is depressing. Is it wrong to be ambitious and want to do well for your Club.

You have to understand that many people have a deep rooted feeling for junior football this grade . You might not but you need to try understand that many people on this do and rightly or wrongly enjoy what they get and have got from their junior football over the years.

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RRG I take your point but we should not slate those "phoenix" clubs who have nothing to lose.

I despair about crowds for all non league football when I turn up at a superleague game yesterday.

Lochee Utd v Hill o Beath.

I counted (Probably including committees and David Beckham) around 85 people in attendance.

This in a city with 150,000 people.

Clearly clubs cannot sell the current product.

I almost find myself as a weirdo turning up as a neutral to a game these days.

I then skipped a mile along the road at halftime to a premier league match Violet v Tayport which probably had around 100 for a local derby.

Ps I filled their canteen coffers to make up for getting in for nowt.

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One question is if the sfa say play in our pyramid or don't play then I am sure that they could be open to a legal challange of some description.

Your honour

My clients did not wish to be part of the pyramid so they did not apply, they find it grossly unfair they have been excluded.

:rolleyes:

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You have to understand that many people have a deep rooted feeling for junior football this grade . You might not but you need to try understand that many people on this do and rightly or wrongly enjoy what they get and have got from their junior football over the years.

This phenomenon only really exists due to the feeling that "the Juniors" are one distinct thing, while "moving up" or "being part of the pyramid" or whatever means quitting and decamping to something else. Which it needn't.

If the Juniors as a separate grade was abolished, and was renamed the 'Scottish Regional League', or 'Scottish Regional Football' or whatever; if the Junior Cup became the Scottish Trophy or whatever; and if you took a place within the pyramid system - between the professional game and the Amateurs... then I'm fairly sure 95% of Junior fans would not bad an eyelid. They would be supporting the same clubs, in the same formats of competitions, playing prettymuch the same opponents, and so on.

Most people's emotional attachments are to clubs, competitions and achievements. Not administrative structures, league names, or rulebooks.

Take your own club and west region as an example. What would actually change? Names of a few cups or leagues might get tweaked; a few out of date rules might be swept aside; there would be some changes in the administrative hierarchies which fans don't care about anyway. Maybe a couple of clubs from D&G would work their way into the SuperPremier or First. An opportunity to ascend would exist. Most would barely notice any tangible change.

I know you also cite the 'big club wee club' thing; but that doesn't seem to affect fans of Peterhead, Spartans, Heston Rovers and so on who may also be fans of Aberdeen, Hearts, QotS and so on.

Edited by HibeeJibee

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You have to understand that many people have a deep rooted feeling for junior football this grade . You might not but you need to try understand that many people on this do and rightly or wrongly enjoy what they get and have got from their junior football over the years.

Its obvious that feeling is there, but ultimately i've yet to see anybody justify why its specifically junior football that's given them there enjoyment. If you can then maybe people might be more sympathetic to your moans, mon the juniors isn't enough.

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The junior formats there and has been for a long time, They should look at including it within the pyramid as is alongside the highland and lowland. If a Junior club wins the superleague then the playoffs, leave it up to them if they want promotion. Sure the team facing relegation would have no issue staying up.

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The junior formats there and has been for a long time, They should look at including it within the pyramid as is alongside the highland and lowland. If a Junior club wins the superleague then the playoffs, leave it up to them if they want promotion. Sure the team facing relegation would have no issue staying up.

If you dont want promotion you should not be part of the pyramid which includes promotion.

Also why should the juniors get alongside? surely they could adequately filter below the lowland and if the clubs are so massivetime they would have overtaken them in a couple of seasons anyway

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Just putting an idea out there, sure there are some junior clubs that would take the chance having won all the way. If i was trying to solve this issue i would work on an offer that couldn't be refused rather than simply stating (or not stating anything) get on board or else.

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Killiepiyo - it couldn't happen in the way you suggest for various reasons. Firstly, it involves the Juniors giving-up nothing whereas the rest would. Secondly, it would be totally impractical as the Junior leagues don't end until June whereas the promotion playoffs start in late April (and you add another 2 rounds!!). Thirdly, there's no question of the North Juniors being equal to HL. Fourthly, it would be very messy to have multiple leagues covering the same area (where would a relegated club go? pick?). Finally, club licensing doesn't currently apply to the Junior Superleagues.

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