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Black Dug

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When is or was the deadline for applications

31st March 2015

Your secretary can download an application form from the club extranet. :)

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While I'm all for a range of clubs making applications, I fail to see the point in allowing another new entrant with a probably non-existent fan base into the league.

We're talking about the fifth tier of the national game, directly below Queen's Park, Clyde and so on. If they want the Juniors, then wait a couple of years to see how the pyramid goes and let them take their time instead of filling up spaces just for the sake of it.

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While I'm all for a range of clubs making applications, I fail to see the point in allowing another new entrant with a probably non-existent fan base into the league.

We're talking about the fifth tier of the national game, directly below Queen's Park, Clyde and so on. If they want the Juniors, then wait a couple of years to see how the pyramid goes and let them take their time instead of filling up spaces just for the sake of it.

Good of you to name two teams in spfl with virtually no fans to show that you can't have a league below them with few fans in it.

Have a look at the attendances at Preniership games each week- there are very few fans at that level too.

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While I'm all for a range of clubs making applications, I fail to see the point in allowing another new entrant with a probably non-existent fan base into the league.

We're talking about the fifth tier of the national game, directly below Queen's Park, Clyde and so on. If they want the Juniors, then wait a couple of years to see how the pyramid goes and let them take their time instead of filling up spaces just for the sake of it.

Who wants the Juniors? If you read any of the myriad of pyramid threads in any of the forums you'd be aware that the Juniors have had the same rights to apply. The fact that the teams applying now are for the 3rd season shows that do far the Juniors aren't arsed about the pyramid.

Why should places not be filled up by teams that want to join the pyramid system? If they can meet the requirements as a club then fair play to them & good luck.

Grimbo

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Good of you to name two teams in spfl with virtually no fans to show that you can't have a league below them with few fans in it.

Have a look at the attendances at Preniership games each week- there are very few fans at that level too.

There's a big difference between mid hundreds to ten or twenty people. I could list amateur sides playing on public parks who could attract more.

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Who wants the Juniors? If you read any of the myriad of pyramid threads in any of the forums you'd be aware that the Juniors have had the same rights to apply. The fact that the teams applying now are for the 3rd season shows that do far the Juniors aren't arsed about the pyramid.

Why should places not be filled up by teams that want to join the pyramid system? If they can meet the requirements as a club then fair play to them & good luck.

Grimbo

I accept that, however we're still in a position where there is yet to be a play-off. I believe in a few years there will be much more interest as the system gains more credibility.

I am a big advocate of a full pyramid system stretching from SPFL right down to SAFA leagues including new clubs, however at this particular level there should not be clubs with no fanbase or ground IMO.

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I accept that, however we're still in a position where there is yet to be a play-off. I believe in a few years there will be much more interest as the system gains more credibility.

I am a big advocate of a full pyramid system stretching from SPFL right down to SAFA leagues including new clubs, however at this particular level there should not be clubs with no fanbase or ground IMO.

Where do you see polmont fitting in to the pyramid? They were Rumoured to be interested in e.o.s prior to lowland league starting?

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There's a big difference between mid hundreds to ten or twenty people. I could list amateur sides playing on public parks who could attract more.

Mid hundreds? Not they two teams- and how many would watch them if they were relegated? Which isn't beyond the realms of possibility now.

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Who wants the Juniors? If you read any of the myriad of pyramid threads in any of the forums you'd be aware that the Juniors have had the same rights to apply. The fact that the teams applying now are for the 3rd season shows that do far the Juniors aren't arsed about the pyramid.

Why should places not be filled up by teams that want to join the pyramid system? If they can meet the requirements as a club then fair play to them & good luck.

Grimbo

The trouble with the Juniors is misinterpreting others good intentions towards them as weakness, thinking themselves more important than they really are in the scheme of things & able to dictate the terms of reference.

Then crying like spoilt children when everyone played on without them.

They got their chance, they blew it, the Lowland (& Highland) League and Scottish football must carry on & leave them to come to grief in their antediluvian set up as events take their course - or come to their senses one by one. Scottish football and its clubs must move with the times or die as antiquated irrelevencies to future generations who expect better than "good enough for my father 'un his before him."

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This guy is in his own little world. The juniors with only one exception are not interested in a flawed "pyramid" that was designed to benefit the existing full members of the SFA and bears almost no resemblance to the pyramid systems that are in place in most other UEFA members. They aren't crying like "spoilt children", they are largely ignoring it and are simply getting on with doing their own thing. The fact that the one exception to the overall trend, Banks o'Dee, have not been given the opportunity to apply for the new fifth tier and have not even been given a viable pathway to play their way into it pretty much says it all. Junior participation was never expected and would not have been welcomed, because all that has actually happened and was ever envisaged was a readjustment to the senior grade.

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This guy is in his own little world. The juniors with only one exception are not interested in a flawed "pyramid" that was designed to benefit the existing full members of the SFA and bears almost no resemblance to the pyramid systems that are in place in most other UEFA members. They aren't crying like "spoilt children", they are largely ignoring it and are simply getting on with doing their own thing. The fact that the one exception to the overall trend, Banks o'Dee, have not been given the opportunity to apply for the new fifth tier and have not even been given a viable pathway to play their way into it pretty much says it all. Junior participation was never expected and would not have been welcomed, because all that has actually happened and was ever envisaged was a readjustment to the senior grade.

Oh the irony

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There are at least a couple of threads on the pyramid system on the junior forum. I get a feeling that there is a shift of opinion from supporters of the bigger junior clubs.

Ninety percent of junior clubs would not notice a difference if they were in the SFA pyramid system. They are already in their own junior version. An integrated system would mean that clubs could progress if they have the ability and inclination to do so.

The junior system is dying on its feet and a lot of people are recognising the fact. Look at East Kilbride, rather than join the junior road to 'success', they chose to join the Lowland League and now they wouldn't look out of place in the Western junior super league. If they had joined the district junior leagues, how long would it have taken to get where they are now? Ambitious amateur clubs are also recognising this and where in the past they would have turned junior, they are now turning senior as they recognise that the juniors are a dead end.

It is time the junior clubs to take control of their own destinies and join the progressive system. It is not up to the SFA to dictate matters but the clubs themselves. I can just image the hue and cry if the SFA said tomorrow that they are withdrawing all support (refs, player registrations, etc) tomorrow. The SJFA can in the most part stay as it is (with integration of the East and South Leagues) and as I said, ninety percent of the clubs wouldn't notice any difference.

No doubt I will be accused of tribalism or sectarianism.

Edited by Cicero

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What is the point of flogging a dead horse with this stuff? They are not interested and the SFA hasn't exactly bust a gut trying to entice them or end the whole anachronistic junior-senior divide, so the whole issue of the juniors suddenly joining en masse is not worth discussing at the moment, because neither the SJFA or the SFA officeholders actually want it to happen. The thread is about a youth club that is interested. Meanwhile, one of their counterparts in the west from Airdrie, Gartcairn Football Academy, are trying to get into the SJFA for next season and another Rossvale have just won promotion out of the central district division Gartcairn want to move into. There's going to be no neat resolution on this stuff any time soon in other words and the junior grade is not in any imminent danger of implosion due to the creation of the Lowland League. It's Scottish football and things are deeply dysfunctional and probably always will be.

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What is the point of flogging a dead horse with this stuff? They are not interested and the SFA hasn't exactly bust a gut trying to entice them or end the whole anachronistic junior-senior divide, so the whole issue of the juniors suddenly joining en masse is not worth discussing at the moment, because neither the SJFA or the SFA officeholders actually want it to happen. The thread is about a youth club that is interested. Meanwhile, one of their counterparts in the west from Airdrie, Gartcairn Football Academy, are trying to get into the SJFA for next season and another Rossvale have just won promotion out of the central district division Gartcairn want to move into. There's going to be no neat resolution on this stuff any time soon in other words and the junior grade is not in any imminent danger of implosion due to the creation of the Lowland League. It's Scottish football and things are deeply dysfunctional and probably always will be.

Ehh who brought it up?

This guy is in his own little world. The juniors with only one exception are not interested in a flawed "pyramid" that was designed to benefit the existing full members of the SFA and bears almost no resemblance to the pyramid systems that are in place in most other UEFA members. They aren't crying like "spoilt children", they are largely ignoring it and are simply getting on with doing their own thing. The fact that the one exception to the overall trend, Banks o'Dee, have not been given the opportunity to apply for the new fifth tier and have not even been given a viable pathway to play their way into it pretty much says it all. Junior participation was never expected and would not have been welcomed, because all that has actually happened and was ever envisaged was a readjustment to the senior grade.

Edited by Cicero

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There's no point discussing the top juniors in this thread and pretending there's still some huge controversy over it because they are not interested and things have moved on. The thread is about a club that is interested and should be about them and that is why the moronic junior-senior sectarianism is best ignored. Getting back to the subject matter it's just as well for Duns and Coldstream that Gartcairn FA didn't get any ideas about groundsharing with Airdrie in a similar manner to AM Soccer at East Fife. They had a viable option right on their doorstep if they can tick the other boxes on licensing.

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This guy is in his own little world. The juniors with only one exception are not interested in a flawed "pyramid" that was designed to benefit the existing full members of the SFA and bears almost no resemblance to the pyramid systems that are in place in most other UEFA members. They aren't crying like "spoilt children", they are largely ignoring it and are simply getting on with doing their own thing. The fact that the one exception to the overall trend, Banks o'Dee, have not been given the opportunity to apply for the new fifth tier and have not even been given a viable pathway to play their way into it pretty much says it all. Junior participation was never expected and would not have been welcomed, because all that has actually happened and was ever envisaged was a readjustment to the senior grade.

As usual, paragraph free word salad.

For the benefit of those who can't be arsed reading the above, here it is properly formatted with some sympathy for those it is supposed to be addressing.

This guy is in his own little world.

The juniors with only one exception are not interested in a flawed "pyramid" that was designed to benefit the existing full members of the SFA and bears almost no resemblance to the pyramid systems that are in place in most other UEFA members. They aren't crying like "spoilt children", they are largely ignoring it and are simply getting on with doing their own thing.

The fact that the one exception to the overall trend, Banks o'Dee, have not been given the opportunity to apply for the new fifth tier and have not even been given a viable pathway to play their way into it pretty much says it all.

Junior participation was never expected and would not have been welcomed, because all that has actually happened and was ever envisaged was a readjustment to the senior grade.

See the difference LTL?

Now as to your points:

"This guy is in his own little world."

As Cicero says, oh the irony.

"The juniors with only one exception are not interested in a flawed "pyramid" that was designed to benefit the existing full members of the SFA and bears almost no resemblance to the pyramid systems that are in place in most other UEFA members."

Most of the Lowland League members were not existing full members of the SFA at the time - this was something they were expected to work towards as a condition of membership. The irony is some of those Juniors who decried this have worked flat out ever since to get just that in order to get into the evil Seniors' Scottish Cup because their own one is a financially draining laughing stock with a fake non-sponsor.

You are correct about the non-resemblence to pyramids elsewhere, but then only in Scotland do we have a butt lazy football association whose interests begin & end with the Glorious Sons of William Struth & their unwelcome continuance, with whatever happens elsewhere in the game being more a time wasting nuisance to be dealt with any old how so long as it keeps UEFA happy that "progress" is being made. Anywhere else in Europe, the local association would not tolerate various overlapping rival systems & the Juniors would simply be merged by force or told to find their own offices, referees, etc.

"They aren't crying like "spoilt children", they are largely ignoring it and are simply getting on with doing their own thing."

Ah, so that's why there was the attempt to rush through a bootleg "Lowland League" of their own in the hope of starving the real one out of business when they discovered intransigence & stalling tactics weren't going to keep everyone else back. :whistle

Actually that business proved a metaphor for the Juniors - as per usual talking a great fight but they can't even organise properly their existing commitments (eg. fixture lists, Junior Cup draws) - let alone attempt new ones - and it all proved to be another load of hot air.

"The fact that the one exception to the overall trend, Banks o'Dee, have not been given the opportunity to apply for the new fifth tier and have not even been given a viable pathway to play their way into it pretty much says it all."

Word salad. Banks O'Dee were an unsuccessful applicant amongst three other Northern Junior clubs to join the Highland League long before this was set up & now there are no spaces available currently. After the embarrassing clusterfuck Strathspey Thistle has proven, they'll not make the error again in keeping out a club they think may be too good for them.

That the Juniors always have plenty of spaces available has more to do with the endless cycle of clubs going bust from piss poor off field management or local lack of interest than any confidence they are entering any sort of well run set up. The ceaseless array of clubs taking "a year out" & never returning is testimony to the less than healthy state the Juniors find themselves in - here we are in March and Ballingry Rovers are gone from the East with Newmains looking dead certs not to finish the season either, to add to the list of last year's fails Bankfoot, Bishopsmill, Coupar Angus ("year out"), Fochabers ("year out") and Steelend Victoria.

"Junior participation was never expected and would not have been welcomed, because all that has actually happened and was ever envisaged was a readjustment to the senior grade."

Right, so if Auchinleck Talbot, Irvine Meadow, Linlithgow Rose and Sauchie had applied, they would have been turned down?

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There's no point discussing the top juniors in this thread and pretending there's still some huge controversy over it because they are not interested and thin

No pretending on my part. In the last month or so have read posts from fans Linlithgow, Bo'ness, Clydebank and some other teams expressing dissatisfaction with the junior system and perhaps its time to move on. I did say that there is a shift in opinion not wholesale revolution.

The thread is about a club that is interested and should be about them and that is why the moronic junior-senior sectarianism is best ignored.

Please point out my junior senior sectarianism comments. My definition of sectarianism must differ somewhat from yours.

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...and on and on. The other youth club I have always wondered about is Cumbernauld Colts. They actually hold the lease on Broadwood rather than Clyde and given the latter are still making noises about moving out maybe the LL and taking a run at being in the SPFL would be a natural progression for them at this point?

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Please point out my junior senior sectarianism comments. My definition of sectarianism must differ somewhat from yours.

...and on and on.

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I don't answer hard questions.

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There's no point discussing the top juniors in this thread and pretending there's still some huge controversy over it because they are not interested and things have moved on. The thread is about a club that is interested and should be about them and that is why the moronic junior-senior sectarianism is best ignored. Getting back to the subject matter it's just as well for Duns and Coldstream that Gartcairn FA didn't get any ideas about groundsharing with Airdrie in a similar manner to AM Soccer at East Fife. They had a viable option right on their doorstep if they can tick the other boxes on licensing.

I'm sure the Gartcairn bloke will speak for them. But in my opinion they've made the right choices. Although I do have a slight reservation about lack of junior history in the town.

Geographically the juniors will suit them better and working on their own park gradually is a far better option than rattling about in a huge, shared league stadium.

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