Council Tax Thaw?

[Granny Danger]

I stand to be corrected if I am wrong but:

1. At the 2011 Holyrood elections the SNP had a manifesto commitment to overhaul or completely revamp the Council Tax. They gave a commitment that until then it would be frozen.

2. There are no firm proposals as yet as to what will replace the Council Tax. In other words after five years of a Council Tax freeze under a majority government the SNP is going into the 2016 Holyrood election without a firm proposal on Council Tax reform/replacement.

Is that the position or am I missing something glaringly obvious? This is a serious question.

[invergowrie arab]

I stand to be corrected if I am wrong but:

1. At the 2011 Holyrood elections the SNP had a manifesto commitment to overhaul or completely revamp the Council Tax. They gave a commitment that until then it would be frozen.

2. There are no firm proposals as yet as to what will replace the Council Tax. In other words after five years of a Council Tax freeze under a majority government the SNP is going into the 2016 Holyrood election without a firm proposal on Council Tax reform/replacement.

Is that the position or am I missing something glaringly obvious? This is a serious question.

That's the position.

[Granny Danger]

That's the position.

Thanks. I just wanted to make 100% sure before saying that I think that's pretty terrible. If that had happened under an administration of a different political persuasion they would be getting pelters, and rightly so.

[invergowrie arab]

Thanks. I just wanted to make 100% sure before saying that I think that's pretty terrible. If that had happened under an administration of a different political persuasion they would be getting pelters, and rightly so.

A few things to point out.

The council tax freeze has been fully funded so councils are no worse off in that respect.

The SNP will make a recommendation on a future system before the end of this parliament.

But

I'm out knocking doors now without an answer and you as you correctly point out the pace of progress has been something that should rightly be criticised. The commission should have been set up well before 2015.

[renton]

I stand to be corrected if I am wrong but:

1. At the 2011 Holyrood elections the SNP had a manifesto commitment to overhaul or completely revamp the Council Tax. They gave a commitment that until then it would be frozen.

2. There are no firm proposals as yet as to what will replace the Council Tax. In other words after five years of a Council Tax freeze under a majority government the SNP is going into the 2016 Holyrood election without a firm proposal on Council Tax reform/replacement.

Is that the position or am I missing something glaringly obvious? This is a serious question.

They haven't released their manifesto yet. So by that metric, we don't know their position on anything yet.

[Baxter Parp]

The SNP have also said they'd introduce a local income tax to replace council tax in previous manifestoes as well.

They attempted to do just that when in a minority government but couldn't get any support to push it through.

[RedRob72]

They haven't released their manifesto yet. So by that metric, we don't know their position on anything yet.

Understanding a future plan on policy is one thing, realising they should have already sorted this matter is another. They have clearly procrastinated on this decision.

[orlandoblue]

Anyone think it's about time the Scottish Government gave our local councils a bit of breathing space by allowing them limited increases in council tax?

I'd like to see them agree with COSLA/councils for the freeze to remain in place for the poorest in properties in bands A & B, but councils be allowed to charge up to 5% more for properties in bands C & D, 10% more for bands E & F, and 15% more for bands G & H. So folk that can't afford an increase don't have to pay any more; those who can pay more should.

It won't raise huge amounts of cash but it would help, and it's pretty sad to see some of the cuts that the councils are having to make: http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/22m-council-cuts-will-devastate-communities-1-3689386

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Also, when the income tax powers from the Smith Commission Report come to Scotland, it'd be interesting to see the Scottish Government link the rates and bands into the real economy by using the median wage as a guide rather than the arbitrary/political-cynical approach that the Westminster Treasury currently uses.

For example:

Tax -free allowance set at 50% of median wage: £12,500 approx. (?)

10% band up to the median wage: £12,500 - £25,000.

20% band up to twice median: £25,000 - £50,000.

40% band from twice median: £50,000+........etc.....

So you'd just make a sweeping assumption about an ability to pay more based on what type of property someone lives in? Ludicrous.

Also in a general sense this nonsense about taxing the rich more is tiresome. The better paid members of society already pay a lot more. They have a different tax bracket and by definition the more they earn the more £ they pay back in tax.

No need to punish successful people any more than we currently do.

[renton]

Understanding a future plan on policy is one thing, realising they should have already sorted this matter is another. They have clearly procrastinated on this decision.

So what was Labour's plan this whole time?

[Mr Rational]

They attempted to do just that when in a minority government but couldn't get any support to push it through.

This. I see Stephen McCabe is bumping his gums in the guardian today...

http://www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2016/feb/12/council-legal-advice-scottish-government-cuts#comments

[John Lambies Doos]

So what was Labour's plan this whole time?

They probably don't have one. They are an utterly pathetic party

[renton]

They probably don't have one. They are an utterly pathetic party

The point being, that other parties were free to publish their CT plans at any time, and didn't. So in terms of Granny's new theme that he's warmed to: That of the SNP getting off for things others would get pelters for - well, no one else was forthcoming about their CT plans either - and still haven't for that matter.

[Granny Danger]

A few things to point out.

The council tax freeze has been fully funded so councils are no worse off in that respect.

The SNP will make a recommendation on a future system before the end of this parliament.

But

I'm out knocking doors now without an answer and you as you correctly point out the pace of progress has been something that should rightly be criticised. The commission should have been set up well before 2015.

Maybe I'm thick but I can't understand this argument that Councils are being 'fully funded' at the same time as they are having to make huge cuts in services. It seems like smoke and mirrors tch.

I would have thought that within a five year period options could have been considered in great detail. i would like to see a specific proposal as a manifest commitment.

The point being, that other parties were free to publish their CT plans at any time, and didn't. So in terms of Granny's new theme that he's warmed to: That of the SNP getting off for things others would get pelters for - well, no one else was forthcoming about their CT plans either - and still haven't for that matter.

I joined the SNP mainly because I believe in the primary goal of Independence. However iIalso did so on the understanding that I wouldn't be required to judge the party's overall performance and approach to the sub standard equivilant that other parties have offered the people of Scotland for decades.

There has been huge debates of late on the tax raising issues in Scotland and rightly so. This is an area that is devolved and where there has been the opportunity to introduce a more progressive and restributive method of local taxation and the SNP government has dragged its heels. I think criticising the party in power is a fair and reasonable thing to do; I'd certainly be doing it if it was a Labour government at Holyrood.

[Billy Jean King]

Sturgeon has already come out and said that the SNP would 'build on' the council tax freeze with a more 'progressive' council tax. The commission on local tax came out in favour of a hybrid approach to replacing the CT, that could involve a local income tax alongside a CT with much reformed bands (and possibly LVT, but probably not given the language of the commission). Given the SNP's previous desire for a local income tax, I believe that will form a part of their new CT proposal.

HMRC have already stated they will not be operating a Scottish only local income tax system so I honestly cannot see how it's a starter.

[invergowrie arab]

Maybe I'm thick but I can't understand this argument that Councils are being 'fully funded' at the same time as they are having to make huge cuts in services. It seems like smoke and mirrors tch.

The Scottish Government have diverted a sum of money to local government away from the centralised pot. This sum is (more than) equivalent to the sum that councils would have expected to make through increases in council tax.

The whole LA settlement has of course been reduced as has the holyrood pocket money from Westminster.

The alternative is to raise local taxes to pay for the cuts coming from London. Maybe we should in principle but I think it is right we look at a more equitable system to achieve this.

It has absolutely taken too long though to establish the commission tasked with proposing alternatives.

[strichener]

The Scottish Government have diverted a sum of money to local government away from the centralised pot. This sum is (more than) equivalent to the sum that councils would have expected to make through increases in council tax.

The whole LA settlement has of course been reduced as has the holyrood pocket money from Westminster.

The alternative is to raise local taxes to pay for the cuts coming from London. Maybe we should in principle but I think it is right we look at a more equitable system to achieve this.

It has absolutely taken too long though to establish the commission tasked with proposing alternatives.

Minor correction here. The SG have funded what they deem would have been acceptable levels of CT rise. What they have done is restrict LAs from oncreasing tax through draconian claw backs.

Aberdeen City may have decided to raise CT by 100% over the last 5 years which would mean that they are now underfunded (or even more underfunded given their pish aettlement from the SG)

[Granny Danger]

The Scottish Government have diverted a sum of money to local government away from the centralised pot. This sum is (more than) equivalent to the sum that councils would have expected to make through increases in council tax.

The whole LA settlement has of course been reduced as has the holyrood pocket money from Westminster.

The alternative is to raise local taxes to pay for the cuts coming from London. Maybe we should in principle but I think it is right we look at a more equitable system to achieve this.

It has absolutely taken too long though to establish the commission tasked with proposing alternatives.

Thanks that gels a bit better with my understanding.

I think we should have raised local taxes to have mitigated the cuts; I agree that we should have looked/be looking at a more equitable system, and I further agree that it has taken too long to do so.

[vikingTON]

Minor correction here. The SG have funded what they deem would have been acceptable levels of CT rise. What they have done is restrict LAs from oncreasing tax through draconian claw backs.

Aberdeen City may have decided to raise CT by 100% over the last 5 years which would mean that they are now underfunded (or even more underfunded given their pish aettlement from the SG)

Erm yes - and the reason why the Scottish Government has done so is because local councils took the piss between 1999 and 2007 under a Lib-Lab, Lab council hegemony, which gave them free rein to increase council taxes by 60% in a period of economic prosperity, to pay for utter, utter shit projects like putting flower beds on central reservations. Since The Only Show In Town strolled into power, such piss-taking has been slapped down, being a competent administration.

Local tax rates should be adjusted according to the wealth and needs of the area by a disinterested, central Scottish authority, instead of handing the keys to the tuck shop fund to the third-rate losers who act as councillors.

[strichener]

Erm yes - and the reason why the Scottish Government has done so is because local councils took the piss between 1999 and 2007 under a Lib-Lab, Lab council hegemony, which gave them free rein to increase council taxes by 60% in a period of economic prosperity, to pay for utter, utter shit projects like putting flower beds on central reservations. Since The Only Show In Town strolled into power, such piss-taking has been slapped down, being a competent administration.

Local tax rates should be adjusted according to the wealth and needs of the area by a disinterested, central Scottish authority, instead of handing the keys to the tuck shop fund to the third-rate losers who act as councillors.

I am not sure how this relates to my post regarding the validity of thr claim that the loss of revenue ftom the freeze has been covered by the SG.

Your assertion that the central Scottish authority is disinterested is laughable.

[Ad Lib]

Minor correction here. The SG have funded what they deem would have been acceptable levels of CT rise. What they have done is restrict LAs from oncreasing tax through draconian claw backs.

Aberdeen City may have decided to raise CT by 100% over the last 5 years which would mean that they are now underfunded (or even more underfunded given their pish aettlement from the SG)

Yep. This is why it's a bit of a nonsense when people talk about the freeze being "funded". The rise is "funded" against, from what I can remember, a with-inflation rise in council tax over the period. But for the financial penalties, a real terms increase in council tax would have likely generated councils more revenue than they have in fact raised.

ETA: and it doesn't account for the passing-on of cuts to central government departments through general reductions to the block grant.

The notion from VT that Councils raise council tax to make flowerbeds on central reservations is obviously nonsense and straight out of a Daily Mail handbook. The overwhelming majority of council spending involves the delivery of central government mandated and initiated services like healthcare, schools and transport. Our Councils aren't increasing the Parks and Recreation budgets; anyone living in Glasgow or Aberdeen for example could tell you that's probably one of the most neglected of local authority services if the state of our parks and communal green spaces are anything to go by.