League Cup change

[RabidAl]

It's what makes the two League Cups in the West Juniors a bit of a joke as the groups are very imbalanced. Shotts get that bye every year being in a dreadful group whereas the one Pollok were in at one time contained half the top flight of the Central Region (Lok, Arthurlie, Renfrew, Johnstone, Neilston and Benburb - though the 7th team St Anthony's I'm sure actually qualified latterly before they changed it).

With my Dons hat on and experience of stale league cup groups, I think the idea is a bit of a non-starter. Cup crowds are invariably pish as they're not covered by a season ticket.

You could get around the problem of potentially stale groups by changing the format cyclically. This could tie in with Scotland's putative participation in major championships every other year, which would make a league cup group stage in July less do-able.

For example:

Year 1 (2015-16): Round 1 (regions) with 8 groups of 4, 2 groups of 5 (10 group winners & 2 runners-up in the groups of 5 & 4 other runners-up go through to last 16);

Year 2 (2016-17): Round 1 (knock-out) with teams from lower leagues given a home tie if drawn against higher-leagued opposition.

Year 3 (2017-18): Round 1 (sections) with 14 groups of 3 (teams drawn from 3 pots of 14, based on previous season's league position); winners & 2 runners-up thru).

Year 4 (2018-19): Round 1 (knock-out) same as Year 2.

Then back to Year 1 again...

You wouldn't have stale groups, the format would keep the competition fresh for each new season, you'd be giving wee teams a better chance in the years when there's a straight knock-out (to balance out any unfairness within regions & seeded sections)...

[Mr Bairn]

Two leagues of 16, then regional pyramid. Replace challenge cup with an "SFA trophy" for teams in the regional pyramid, and keep the league cup to teams from the premiership and championship

To replace the lost revenue from slashing the league season to 30, guarantee each team at least three home league cup games. The way to do this is to follow the champions league format.

You could start mid/late July with a Saturday-Midweek-Saturday, then the last three group games would be midweeks in late July/early August with the last 16 and quarters in September and the semis in October. The final, of course, would take place in the better weather of March.

Then for the Scottish cup just chuck 128 names in a hat and play till you have one left.

[SpoonTon]

For a long time I've been a fan of the idea of some sort of regional grouping to replace the early rounds of the league cup. The major problem is how to sort out the regions, there are many of the other problems that have already been outlined. Instead of groups, part of me actually likes the idea of regionalised mini-knockout stages, with ties played over 2 legs. It just seems like each tie would generate that little bit extra interest.

But the only way any of this would work is if people gave up on the idea of fairness in terms of the way the cup is now. Not all regions would be of equal difficultly. There would be no way to guarentee this anyway - teams like Hamilton, Partick thistle, St Johnstone, and Ross County are further up the ladder than Hibs, Hearts, Falkirk, and Dunfermline, but the picture would have been very different in many seasons over the last 5, 10, 20 years, and it will be different again in the future. Anyway, after drawing border lines, you'd need to allow each region a measure of autonomy to decide its format. This might make it seem like a team like Aberdeen would get an easy ride - but if it was the tournament that was wanted then you'd have to accept that. My instinct is that we would never find a system that people would think of as sufficiently fair.

[RabidAl]

For a long time I've been a fan of the idea of some sort of regional grouping to replace the early rounds of the league cup. The major problem is how to sort out the regions, there are many of the other problems that have already been outlined. Instead of groups, part of me actually likes the idea of regionalised mini-knockout stages, with ties played over 2 legs. It just seems like each tie would generate that little bit extra interest.

But the only way any of this would work is if people gave up on the idea of fairness in terms of the way the cup is now. Not all regions would be of equal difficultly. There would be no way to guarentee this anyway - teams like Hamilton, Partick thistle, St Johnstone, and Ross County are further up the ladder than Hibs, Hearts, Falkirk, and Dunfermline, but the picture would have been very different in many seasons over the last 5, 10, 20 years, and it will be different again in the future. Anyway, after drawing border lines, you'd need to allow each region a measure of autonomy to decide its format. This might make it seem like a team like Aberdeen would get an easy ride - but if it was the tournament that was wanted then you'd have to accept that. My instinct is that we would never find a system that people would think of as sufficiently fair.

I remember you mentioned the sort of ultra-regional knock-out stages in a previous thread. I reckon it's a decent idea that'd get the fans through the gates in the early rounds, and might be more workable than a group stage, although there could be the issue of how to you would whittle it down in the latter stages.

Agree it looks pretty difficult to find a regionalised format that seems fair, although maybe this SPFL 'working group' that I keep hearing about on the wireless might come up with something...

Edited February 24, 2015 by RabidAl

[footnotes]

Since they've done away with the regional ties it seems like there's less point in having teams in a wee group, as it's not so much like a local league any more (well - it often wasn't anyway).  

Therefore... I'd like to see them try a giant league table in the way that the Champions League will be, but just with the top 11 qualifying for the next round.  Keep the seeding system for the fixtures in the first round, so playing 4 opponents; keep bonus point for draw-win; etc.