Florentine_Pogen Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 On 15/09/2023 at 11:10, invergowrie arab said: There is no need to protect hunting in the way that it is currently carried out. Muirburn is to remove the habitats of animals that carry ticks that affect grouse and predate on ground nesting birds and their eggs. If people want to eat grouse it can be farmed in upland enclosures. The shooting of grouse is pure and simple bloodsport and in no way comparable to the necessary culling of deer. The grouse lobby will talk about how they create habitat for birds like plover but wont tell you what's not there like hare, martens, stoats, raptors, snakes, lizards, bees, butterflies before you event get into the flora. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/13/grouse-and-kestrels-on-the-wane-as-climate-crisis-hits-scottish-wildlife 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 On 24/09/2023 at 09:47, bennett said: It's always a one off incident. The deaths of thousands of salmon at a controversial fish farm have been exposed by shocking drone footage. The images of the RSPCA Assured site off Skye shows thousands of dead fish being extracted from cages for disposal. The surveillance pictures of the Bakkafrost Scotland farm outlines large containers packed with lifeless salmon being offloaded on to the 73m well boat Bakkanes for removal. Dead fish are seen floating in a cage as a live trapped salmon struggles to free itself from a net across the top. Secret underwater filming at the same site – previously revealed by the Sunday Mail – showed horrific images of ‘zombie salmon’ swimming around, despite missing large chunks of flesh. The firm have blamed jellyfish for the deaths, with Scottish Government inspectors being called in to investigate. Campaigner Don Staniford said the images raise concerns over animal welfare and biosecurity at Bakkafrost Scotland’s Portree site. Last night, he said: “Salmon farming is a welfare nightmare and must be immediately closed down to save tens of millions of fish. “This is an estimate but, having watched events from onshore and having reviewed the footage, there is a credible argument to say we could be talking 500 tons of dead fish in this single incident. It could be over 1000. “The images show some 30-40 tons at one moment in time and the response to whatever caused this incident took place over at least four days. The Bakkanes can transport 600 tons. “Consumers should avoid RSPCA Assured Scottish salmon like the plague. Bakkafrost Scotland – based in Edinburgh – was previously known as the Scottish Salmon Company before it was bought by Faroe Islands-based P/F Bakkafrost, described as the third biggest fish farming company in the world. Iain MacIntyre, director of marine operation at Bakkafrost Scotland, admitted to an issue with its salmon and blamed jellyfish. He said: “Salmon farming takes place in the natural environment and can face unique and difficult biological challenges, particularly when the water is warmer. “This has been the case at Portree when, following a prolonged period of hot weather, a jelly fish bloom moved through the area. We immediately deployed additional resources and equipment to resolve the issue and the relevant authorities were notified. “Our staff worked diligently and went above and beyond to manage a challenging set of circumstances and deal with the problems caused by the jelly fish bloom. “This was carried out in a matter of days and the jelly fish bloom has now passed through the site and the incident-based mortality has ceased. “Bakkafrost Scotland is committed to the welfare and health of our salmon and the natural environment. We would strongly disagree with any suggestion our team has operated in any way which challenges fish welfare and biosecurity regulations when dealing with a one-off incident of this nature Highland Council said no one was available to comment. Defra, on behalf of APHA, referred queries to the Scottish Government On 24/09/2023 at 11:41, Snobot said: @bennett it’s an absolute disaster as you know. Seems like the mainstream media is starting to take an interest though. Looking at the maps and data there is a good chance the farms in Orkney and Shetland are now wrecking the East and North Coast smolt run due to out of control lice up there so it is no longer just a west coast issue. It’s easy for them to pass off a percentage mortality rate but when you are talking literally millions of fish in a single farm the numbers get big quickly. And the waste in hoovering up feed fish to feed them to point of death. https://www.salmonscotland.co.uk/reports/monthly-mortality-rate-june-2023 I don’t and wouldn’t eat farmed salmon and anyone with any thoughts for Scotland’s environment should consider the environmental impact of what they are eating. Calling for Salmon farming to be banned is stupid. Unless we're going to mandate veganism, there will be environmental impacts from farming animals for food. One substitute for farmed salmon is land based animal protein. Banned salmon production would increase pollution from that. Another substitute is harvesting wild fish. We all know how good that is for the marine environment. Change to some of the more harmful practices: limiting intensity and scale, better location, less chemicals etc is what is needed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, coprolite said: Calling for Salmon farming to be banned is stupid. Unless we're going to mandate veganism, there will be environmental impacts from farming animals for food. One substitute for farmed salmon is land based animal protein. Banned salmon production would increase pollution from that. Another substitute is harvesting wild fish. We all know how good that is for the marine environment. Change to some of the more harmful practices: limiting intensity and scale, better location, less chemicals etc is what is needed. Salmon farming is wiping out wild salmon and sea trout stocks through pollution, sea lice and escapees breeding with wild salmon. The huge quantities of wild fish which are harvested to feed farmed salmon is astronomical, fish farming in coastal waters is devastating our environment. But because it's underwater and they're not cute fluffy animals then it's out of sight of mind. Companies like Mowi will just pay lip service to concerns and continue to provide cheap salmon for supermarkets. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 51 minutes ago, bennett said: Salmon farming is wiping out wild salmon and sea trout stocks through pollution, sea lice and escapees breeding with wild salmon. The huge quantities of wild fish which are harvested to feed farmed salmon is astronomical, fish farming in coastal waters is devastating our environment. But because it's underwater and they're not cute fluffy animals then it's out of sight of mind. Companies like Mowi will just pay lip service to concerns and continue to provide cheap salmon for supermarkets. I'm not doubting the diagnosis although some of the language is a bit hyperbolic there. I'm saying that the remedy should be to change how it's done, not to stop it entirely. Not all of those things need to be true of Salmon farming. Not all of those things are exclusive to Salmon farming. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snobot Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 hours ago, coprolite said: Change to some of the more harmful practices: limiting intensity and scale, better location, less chemicals etc is what is needed. The industry has zero interest or will to do so, hence why it needs to be exposed for what it currently is. I didn’t suggest it can be banned. In an ideal world, it wouldn’t exist or have to exist but it does. It was set up to relieve pressure on wild stocks when they were relatively healthy and has been a major contributor to their collapse. It provides employment. Sadly though, the industry does not give a damn about the current damage they are causing, nor the eye-watering mortality rates. I make a personal choice to avoid it and if this is replicated due to better awareness then the ultimate conclusion would be drop in demand but again, not likely to happen. What will ultimately do for them is rising sea temperatures making most of their existing locations completely unsustainable as mortalities will reach a tipping point due to algal blooms, micro jellyfish swarms, lice etc. It can be done in better harmony with the environment but one of the last small companies to do so was acquired by Mowi last year and they are currently trying to rip up all the things which worked in the most disingenuous way possible (gaming the planning system) to give us an unwanted automated (cutting existing jobs in the process) cess pit in a sheltered loch. 3 hours ago, coprolite said: One substitute for farmed salmon is land based animal protein. Banned salmon production would increase pollution from that. The difference is land based agriculture doesn’t and wouldn’t get away with dumping 100% of their waste untreated directly into the environment whilst about half of their livestock was lying dead in the fields. 3 hours ago, coprolite said: Another substitute is harvesting wild fish. We all know how good that is for the marine environment. They already harvest huge amounts of food fish from eg West Africa, diminishing local resources for local fisherman, in order to turn it into pellets to feed it to salmon, a huge number of which will die in production thus wasting the resource. The feed also contains oils from farmed Atlantic Salmon, as if feeding livestock back to themselves has a glowing back history. They also harvest wild wrasse in huge numbers all over the UK coast, use them as cleaner fish and liquidate them at the end of the 2 year production cycle. What other industry would get away with doing that to a wild animal to support their unsustainable practices? They are like big tobacco and would deny any negative impact to their final breath. Bringing it ashore would help but I don’t know if the numbers add up. Having said that, there is a massive on shore facility planned at Cleethorpes. If it gets them out of our inner lochs and near our rivers then great, but it won’t. It’ll be in addition to these. I don’t think anything Bennet is saying is off the mark tbh. It’s an environmental catastrophe in its current guise but the industry will have to be dragged kicking and screaming to even make the slightest beneficial change. Mowi and Bakkafrost have launched SLAPPs (Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation) to prevent one of the higher-profile activists (Don Staniford) approaching within 15 metres, or flying drones over their farms (in publicly owned waters no less) because he continually and covertly exposes malpractice. Nothing screams “nothing to see here gov’ner” like multinationals taking out interdicts against citizen activism. As you might have gathered, it makes my blood boil. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Lovely customer service from your friendly neighbourhood fish farmers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawB93 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Maybe not quite the right thread but I was reading about Galloway potentially being awarded National Park status and was curious as to what that actually means. Does that protect it from certain types of developments? Will more funding be provided/more jobs created to look after it? Genuinely no idea. On 16/05/2023 at 11:14, jamamafegan said: Late last year I entered the world of YouTube and created a channel to discuss rewilding topics. I've uploaded 3 videos so far, the first one is below and serves as an introductory video briefly explaining the dire state of affairs ecologically in Scotland. Feedback on the vids has been great so far and I'm planning to release more in future covering various issues. If the good people of P&B would like to keep up to date with my uploads and help the channel grow then please consider subscribing and sharing the vids with your fellow rewilding curious friends and family. I have to be honest and say you are the antithesis of what I expect P&B's posters to look like. Well done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 8 hours ago, RawB93 said: Maybe not quite the right thread but I was reading about Galloway potentially being awarded National Park status and was curious as to what that actually means. Does that protect it from certain types of developments? Will more funding be provided/more jobs created to look after it? Genuinely no idea. I have to be honest and say you are the antithesis of what I expect P&B's posters to look like. Well done. Almost certainly not (not jobs for locals anyway) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotiaNostra Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Its sad how bad the diversity in nature is in UK, from massive over population in the south of England and still they talk about building more homes on more unused land. To Scotland and miles and miles of empty hills and still nowhere near enough variety of trees and plants being planted. The stuff posted on here about Salmon farms is shocking, I didnt realise it had got that bad. They really need every council in UK to focus on this and improve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Not Scotland, but nearby. I’m getting quite irritated by the number of grey squirrels that dig up the garden. I’ve heard there’s some sort of illicit underground re-wilding network on the go. Will they be able to sort out a pine marten for me? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/29/conifer-forest-subsidies-tax-breaks-should-be-scrapped-report On a related issue - I couldn't agree more with binning the commercial timber monoculture nonsense, even without considering the tax breaks that incentivise it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Scottish Parliament passed a bill yesterday officially titled the Wildlife Management & Muirburn Bill, which is effectively a grouse moor licensing scheme. Licences now required to allow grouse shooting, muirburn, the use of wildlife traps and snares are fully banned, while the SPCA now has greater investigatory powers. It may not go far enough, but it's a positive step. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 6 hours ago, Dunning1874 said: Scottish Parliament passed a bill yesterday officially titled the Wildlife Management & Muirburn Bill, which is effectively a grouse moor licensing scheme. Licences now required to allow grouse shooting, muirburn, the use of wildlife traps and snares are fully banned, while the SPCA now has greater investigatory powers. It may not go far enough, but it's a positive step. I was sat in the parliament gallery watching history being made. A glorious moment. Finally some proper legislation for an industry which has enjoyed being regulation free for far too long. Going to be interesting to see how the shooting estates manage to comply with the legislation (not very well I suspect). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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