Rewilding Scotland

[Benjamin_Nevis]

The "country sports" industry seems to be in a permanent state of tears at the SNP. Nicola Sturgeon herself is apparently guilty of killing deer at the incorrect time of year.

[bennett]

Birds of prey will do very little damage to stocks of grouse and other game birds,  needless killings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RiG]

Depressing tweet / video this from RSPB Scotland:

 

[jamamafegan]

Damning evidence of illegal killing by grousers. No doubt they will try and claim it’s all a big RSPB set up to try and make them look bad!

[jamamafegan]

And just like that...classic whataboutery from SGA

[prodcast]

Folk on this thread may have an interest in the news and forum sections of Scottish Rural Action's website -

https://www.sra.scot

Cheers.

[jamamafegan]

Is it just me or does the gamekeeper in the logo look like Trump in profile?

That’s a superb shout

[Rizzo]

Ooft and so soon after the Channel 4 expose as well.

Everyone with half a brain suspected that keepers were killing birds and disposing of the tags and there's the proof. Bit difficult for the industry to deny it happens now. There just aren't any other groups or individuals that have anything like the motive that gamekeepers do to vomit this sort of crime.

[Snobot]

1 minute ago, Rizzo said:

Ooft and so soon after the Channel 4 expose as well.

Everyone with half a brain suspected that keepers were killing birds and disposing of the tags and there's the proof. Bit difficult for the industry to deny it happens now. There just aren't any other groups or individuals that have anything like the motive that gamekeepers do to vomit this sort of crime.

Come on, what obviously happened was the bird grew tired of the tag, got some scissors to cleanly snip the harness, pulled the antennae off with its mighty beak, sourced a big piece of heavy lead, wrapped the tag in the lead using its powerful talons (it’s a highly malleable metal of course) and ditched it in disgust into the River Braan. To suggest otherwise is grossly insulting to our hard working guardians of the countryside.

[Newbornbairn]

False flag.

 

 

 

Is what the keepers are seriously trying to claim.

 

I've seen wildly different figures for the value of grouse shooting to the Scottish economy. From about £7m a year in academic studies to eleventy billion a week by gamekeepers. In the grand scheme of things, it's f**k all. Outlaw it, throw a few million in compensation at the toffs and let's get on with developing the Highlands in an ecologically sympathetic way that will generate ten times as much for Scotland. 

[Snobot]

They could arguably continue to permit walked up shooting where you might get a couple of brace if you were very lucky on normal non-managed land if that is what people want to do and are willing to pay for it. 

Driven grouse is a hideous anachronism which massively and disproportionately affects the environment (see charred upland deserts of central highlands and Moray).  Most of the clientele are probably too fat and lazy to walk anywhere though (see bulldozed hill roads through said upland desert).

Surely there must be a case under the Wildlife and Natural Environment Act 2011 to go after the owner of the land where the tag last transmitted? 

[Newbornbairn]

15 minutes ago, Snobot said:

 

Surely there must be a case under the Wildlife and Natural Environment Act 2011 to go after the owner of the land where the tag last transmitted? 

Shoot him and drag the body down to Sauchiehall St? I like your thinking.

[Rizzo]

1 hour ago, Snobot said:

Surely there must be a case under the Wildlife and Natural Environment Act 2011 to go after the owner of the land where the tag last transmitted? 

Considering we have the benefit of vicarious liability here there's very little reason not to.

[DiegoDiego]

False flag.
 
 
 
Is what the keepers are seriously trying to claim.
 
I've seen wildly different figures for the value of grouse shooting to the Scottish economy. From about £7m a year in academic studies to eleventy billion a week by gamekeepers. In the grand scheme of things, it's f**k all. Outlaw it, throw a few million in compensation at the toffs and let's get on with developing the Highlands in an ecologically sympathetic way that will generate ten times as much for Scotland. 

Ten times as much? It's quite bold of you to go from poking fun at gamekeepers' laughable numbers to making up some of your own in the same paragraph.

[Newbornbairn]

1 hour ago, DiegoDiego said:

 

Ten times as much? It's quite bold of you to go from poking fun at gamekeepers' laughable numbers to making up some of your own in the same paragraph.

How much income do you think Yellowstone Park brings in? Let me help you- $650m. Now how much do you think it would bring in with most of the wildlife culled to benefit a single non-native species, all the trees removed, access limited to the public and an entirely alien eco system introduced? A tenth? A twentieth?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Fond early lockdown memories of Muirburn Estate having a wonderful Facebook rant about not qualifying for any grants. Excellent irony as they were only available to rate payers and of course most estates had absolute strops and campaigned heavily (and successfully) to dodge paying rates.

[DiegoDiego]

NBB is not being hyperbolic with an estimate of 10x as much. I'll need to look out numbers for it but grouse shooting and deer stalking constitute  pennies compared to what gets spent by cake hunters.

Cake hunters?

You could be right with 10x but it seems a bit of a stretch and we're surely talking generations before reaching that number. Where is this money currently being allocated?

Ecosystems don't grow overnight and neither does the infrastructure needed to cope with such demand; they've been trying to build An Camas Mòr for decades and have yet to break ground. Say five times as many people spending twice as much money as currently? I don't see it happening.

[sophia]

1 hour ago, NewBornBairn said:

How much income do you think Yellowstone Park brings in? Let me help you- $650m. Now how much do you think it would bring in with most of the wildlife culled to benefit a single non-native species, all the trees removed, access limited to the public and an entirely alien eco system introduced? A tenth? A twentieth?

I can't tell you who it is but there is a poster (name rhymes with gincardine) on here that insists that the stewardship of our uplands is safe in the hands of the few.

I take the opposite view and in my experience, landowners and their agents are exclusively exercised in grasping every coin they can in a status quo scenario. It's all so small minded.

A reimagining and positive outcomes for these areas is a thing that can only be achieved with a profound change in our politics.

[DiegoDiego]

This Scottish Government report (https://www.gov.scot/publications/grouse-moor-management-group-report-scottish-government/pages/3/) places the size of the shooting sector in GVA terms at £23million in 2009. If we assume most of that is happening in the Highlands and Borders, from this data source (ONS stats: https://www.gov.scot/publications/growth-sector-statistics/) and consider only tourism, that came to £231million in 2009, which is uncannily near enough exactly 10x as much.

But that tourism won't grow to £408m by banning shooting as was being suggested, no?

[jamamafegan]

Diego, have a read of this and some of the other publications released by Revive:


https://revive.scot/publication/back-to-life-visions-for-alternative-futures-for-scotlands-grouse-moors/