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jamamafegan

Reintroducing native species to Scotland

Reintroduction of native species to Scotland  

163 members have voted

  1. 1. What species should be considered for reintroduction to the Scottish countryside?



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I managed to get myself into an argument on facebook with one of these recently and had the attached graphic thrown at me.
Conveniently missing the point that sparrow hawks and buzzards were nearly persecuted out of existance by game keepers and struggled to reproduce due to the massive amounts of DDT that were thrown about in the 50's and 60's which led to their numbers crashing to near extinction levels.
Also fails to take into account the massive loss of habitat and insects and the fact that all over the world predator numbers are influenced by available prey numbers and not the other way around. 
But yeah, its us townies that don't understand basic ecology.
58444517_10218800172585629_6286474439232061440_n.jpg.fbaf97fe595de02cee89ef4e2a8af794.jpg

I read a paper by the GWCT that proved estates have more hares than land without shooting activity... because they kill all the foxes and stoats!

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7 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

I read a paper by the GWCT that proved estates have more hares than land without shooting activity... because they kill all the foxes and stoats!

The grouse moor crowd love to point out that golden plovers, lapwings etc do well on grouse moors. Like its something they were aiming for all along rather than a happy coincidence.

Edited by Rizzo

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That graphic is something else :lol: Anyone trying to link the increase / decrease between the groups with one another is having a laugh.

It's well documented that intensification of farming led to a sharp drop in birds such as Tree sparrows, Bullfinches etc. for obvious reasons - destruction of habitat, reduction of food sources, lack of suitable wintering habitat due to less stubble present in fields because of winter sowing (particularly important for Yellowhammer) and so on. 

The species that have increased in population during that time haven't done so because they've chomped their way through those other birds but more that persecution levels have fallen in the case of raptor species and the DDT point raised above. Papers discussing the increase in the population of Carrion crows cite increases in nesting success and with earlier laying (perhaps an effect of climate change) as the main drivers for this change. Magpies increased in abundance because of their adaptation to urban and suburban locations (much like Herring gulls) but their numbers are declining again.

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14 hours ago, Rizzo said:

I managed to get myself into an argument on facebook with one of these recently and had the attached graphic thrown at me.

Conveniently missing the point that sparrow hawks and buzzards were nearly persecuted out of existance by game keepers and struggled to reproduce due to the massive amounts of DDT that were thrown about in the 50's and 60's which led to their numbers crashing to near extinction levels.

Also fails to take into account the massive loss of habitat and insects and the fact that all over the world predator numbers are influenced by available prey numbers and not the other way around. 

But yeah, its us townies that don't understand basic ecology.

58444517_10218800172585629_6286474439232061440_n.jpg

I get loads of Bullfinches in my garden, so it's fine.

ETA: here's a photo of one from the other day with one of its wee Greenfinch pals. 

IMG_20190424_182715.jpg

Edited by KnightswoodBear

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9 minutes ago, KnightswoodBear said:

I get loads of Bullfinches in my garden, so it's fine.

ETA: here's a photo of one from the other day with one of its wee Greenfinch pals. 

IMG_20190424_182715.jpg

That was preciecly the argument the guy countered with (sorry I know your post is tongue in cheek). "I see _______ on my land therefore what happens elsewhere is irrelevant."

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31 minutes ago, RiG said:

That graphic is something else :lol: Anyone trying to link the increase / decrease between the groups with one another is having a laugh.

It's well documented that intensification of farming led to a sharp drop in birds such as Tree sparrows, Bullfinches etc. for obvious reasons - destruction of habitat, reduction of food sources, lack of suitable wintering habitat due to less stubble present in fields because of winter sowing (particularly important for Yellowhammer) and so on. 

The species that have increased in population during that time haven't done so because they've chomped their way through those other birds but more that persecution levels have fallen in the case of raptor species and the DDT point raised above. Papers discussing the increase in the population of Carrion crows cite increases in nesting success and with earlier laying (perhaps an effect of climate change) as the main drivers for this change. Magpies increased in abundance because of their adaptation to urban and suburban locations (much like Herring gulls) but their numbers are declining again.

I tried to explain predator-prey relationship models but I think the guys brain leaked out his ears.

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Surely re-introducing Lynx and Wolves are dangerous to the people that regularly walk the munros, west highland way etc every year? Will there be any laws and regulations on weapons to defend yourself should you encounter one?

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Glen Affric is like another world. I read somewhere it technically counts as rainforest - I had no idea you could get rainforest outside places like Brazil!


I’ve always wanted to go to to Glen Affric and now that I have permanently moved not far from it I will be heading there for the weekend very soon.

There are other “Celtic rainforests” across the west coast of Scotland, including one right next to Oban.

https://www.scotsman.com/regions/inverness-highlands-islands/ancient-woodland-in-oban-added-to-chain-of-rainforest-sites-1-4874144

These are fascinating and precious ecosystems that we should be enhancing and expanding. Living in New Zealand 3 years ago was a major eye opener for me. It is quite often referred to as Scotland on steroids, which to a certain extent is true, but what NZ has that we don’t are vast mountainous rainforests that stretch for probably hundreds of km. Huge, magical wildernesses. I can only dream of Scotland having such environments. It is achievable if we make it happen.

IMG_5327.jpg

IMG_5326.jpg

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Imagine what a country we would have if we turned this:

IMG_5330.jpg
(Generic grouse moor)

To this:

IMG_5329.jpg
(Cairngorms)

Into this:

IMG_5328.jpg
(Glen Affric)

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20 hours ago, Adam101 said:

Cheers Mixu! Whenever you and @jamamafegan post on these threads I realise how little I know about Scotland's environment you are a couple of gems here!

Thanks

Many Thanks

Kind Regards

Thanks

Many Thanks

Kind Regards

(A couple of) Gem(s).

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46 minutes ago, boulderdomb said:

Surely re-introducing Lynx and Wolves are dangerous to the people that regularly walk the munros, west highland way etc every year? Will there be any laws and regulations on weapons to defend yourself should you encounter one?

That would be no great loss, imho...

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1 hour ago, KnightswoodBear said:

I get loads of Bullfinches in my garden, so it's fine.

ETA: here's a photo of one from the other day with one of its wee Greenfinch pals. 

IMG_20190424_182715.jpg

We get a lot of sparrows and finches, I can't remember what colour they are! :lol: And a bossy robin.

They queue up on the telephone wire and wait their turn.

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Surely re-introducing Lynx and Wolves are dangerous to the people that regularly walk the munros, west highland way etc every year? Will there be any laws and regulations on weapons to defend yourself should you encounter one?
I would imagine the danger to the public from wolves and/or lynx would be next to f**k all to be honest. If anything it would probably increase the visitor numbers on the off chance of spotting them

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There's wolves and lynxes in Scandinavia and nobody gets killed by them, it'd be fine.

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2 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

Imagine what a country we would have if we turned this:

IMG_5330.jpg
(Generic grouse moor)

To this:

IMG_5329.jpg
(Cairngorms)

Into this:

IMG_5328.jpg
(Glen Affric)

  1. Independence
  2. Revolution
  3. Andy Wightman installed as dictator for life

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If you are looking for an unspoilt wilderness in Glen Affric just manage your expectations. It's very bonny but it's a working glen and I don't know if the new hydro works are finished / reinstated yet.

This was my new year's day 2018

 

 

IMAG1225.jpg

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2 hours ago, boulderdomb said:

Surely re-introducing Lynx and Wolves are dangerous to the people that regularly walk the munros, west highland way etc every year? Will there be any laws and regulations on weapons to defend yourself should you encounter one?

Given there's never been a recorded incidence of a wild lynx attacking a human in Europe I think you'll be okay. They are reclusive and mainly nocturnal tending to stick to forest cover. Unless you happen to pitch up a tent in some woods with a starving lynx and slather yourself in ketchup and simply lie there you will unlikely be bothered by one.

For wolves there have been recorded attacks but the majority, if not all of them, are not fatal -particularly in recent years. Wolves that have attacked humans have typically done so because they are suffering from rabies or in self defence. Given that rabies has largely been eradicated from most of Europe it is unlikely that a rabid wolf would attack a human if they were introduced here. There are currently more than 12,000 wolves in Europe and  more than 50,000 wolves in North America,yet there have only been a handful of attacks in recent decades despite these populations living in relatively close proximity to millions of humans.

Edited by RiG

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