Dan Steele Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 33 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: I like the torn faced farmer in the BBC article. Get it up ye! That'll be Adrian Ivory, poster boy of British farming, from Strathisla farms, since his role in an Asda advert. I'm fairly sure his farm is best known for pedigree cattle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said: Was it farmers who made them extinct the first time round? Trappers for their fur probably. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I would have thought that, too. I can understand why farmers might have objections. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathematics Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 f**k the farmers, long live the beaver. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Mon the beaver! But being serious do we not need to keep their numbers in check, due to Scotland not having the woodland is once did before we killed them all 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: this instead tbh. Willow, Birch, Alder all grow super fast near rivers & slow down run-off from fields to boot but fermers like easy access to water courses for their livestock. Cheers Mixu! Whenever you and @jamamafegan post on these threads I realise how little I know about Scotland's environment you are a couple of gems here! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) On 28/02/2019 at 16:02, jamamafegan said: For those who don’t know, this is the practise known as muir burning. Estate workers torch the hills to allow new heather to grow for the grouse to eat in preparation for following shooting seasons. It’s one of the reasons why huge parts of our country are devoid of life, complete wastelands. I think grouse shooting has a place in Scotland but it’s currently an unsustainable practise and it’s terrible for native wildlife. Imagine what our country would look like with not just more trees, but with upland scrubland and true succession of plants into the alpine zone. It would be glorious. I can only imagine that most people who refer to Scotland's 'natural beauty' don't quite appreciate that very, very little of our landscape is natural/wild. Other than patches like Glen Affric with it's preserved Caledonian forest, the entire place from the wide expanses of fields to the hills in your picture (even if you took the pylon out) is little more than a landscape designed by man, for man. We pretend that we're 'saving the planet' (whatever that means) but all we're really doing is cherry picking things and designing a world that we find the most beneficial for mankind and aesthetically pleasing. If the panda wasn't cute and cuddly then nobody would give a f*** about something that's too lazy to shag itself out of extinction. Here, eagles & wolves look pretty cool and the beaver is good for a laugh (both good for drawing in the tourists of course), hence they also get relatively easy backing. However, if you take pollinators as one example, which are key for agriculture but in serious decline, we hear nothing about reintroducing bees and wasps, 8 species of which became extinct in the UK during the 1900's. A 'more wasps' campaign is political suicide though, so not worth the fuss. Edited May 1, 2019 by Hedgecutter 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Glen Affric is like another world. I read somewhere it technically counts as rainforest - I had no idea you could get rainforest outside places like Brazil! The one inside Butterfly World by Dalkeith is probably more convenient for you. For a start, they have toilets where you can go for a sh*te without getting your arsecheeks bitten by midges or a big b*****d anaconda. Edited May 1, 2019 by Hedgecutter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 On 12/5/2018 at 08:03, jamamafegan said: A bit of a set back yesterday for the rewilding movement, albeit in England. Lynx UK Trust’s application for reintroduction of Lynx to Northumberland has been rejected by the government.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-46446890 Real shame this as it would likely have paved the way for reintroductions in Scotland as well. I was under the impression that Lynx UK are pretty on the ball so I was surprised to see the government say there was any holes in the plans. Probably the UK government being complete dicks as usual. Reintroducing the lynx has to be the next major rewilding step in Scotland. Sadly as RiG has said above, it’s unlikely the SNP would risk upsetting rural communities - and we have absolute backwards numpties like Ewing to contend with. There would have to be overwhelming support in the countryside from SNP voting landowners. Lynx Trust UK are at it. they don't have the backing of any credible scientific or natural heritage body and seem to be very keen for people to make donations. There is worse than that I'll leave it at that as they are notriously litigous as Andy Wightman is finding out and I'll wait and see what the outcome of that case is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Cracking thread this. I look forward to reading "Rewilding Scotland" so thanks for the tips. Also, I'm less pissed off with gamekeepers than I am with the landowners who employ them. It's like being annoyed at polis for particular laws. They're just the servants of the rich. I'm glad someone mentioned bees and wasps. I like the idea of Lynx, Wolves and Bears, but the bees are far more important. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizzo Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 6 hours ago, MixuFixit said: Aye. It's always 'you townies don't understand the country ways. We're the ones in harmony with nature and your silly laws stopping us making animals extinct are out of touch' I managed to get myself into an argument on facebook with one of these recently and had the attached graphic thrown at me. Conveniently missing the point that sparrow hawks and buzzards were nearly persecuted out of existance by game keepers and struggled to reproduce due to the massive amounts of DDT that were thrown about in the 50's and 60's which led to their numbers crashing to near extinction levels. Also fails to take into account the massive loss of habitat and insects and the fact that all over the world predator numbers are influenced by available prey numbers and not the other way around. But yeah, its us townies that don't understand basic ecology. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizzo Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: I read a paper by the GWCT that proved estates have more hares than land without shooting activity... because they kill all the foxes and stoats! The grouse moor crowd love to point out that golden plovers, lapwings etc do well on grouse moors. Like its something they were aiming for all along rather than a happy coincidence. Edited May 1, 2019 by Rizzo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 That graphic is something else Anyone trying to link the increase / decrease between the groups with one another is having a laugh. It's well documented that intensification of farming led to a sharp drop in birds such as Tree sparrows, Bullfinches etc. for obvious reasons - destruction of habitat, reduction of food sources, lack of suitable wintering habitat due to less stubble present in fields because of winter sowing (particularly important for Yellowhammer) and so on. The species that have increased in population during that time haven't done so because they've chomped their way through those other birds but more that persecution levels have fallen in the case of raptor species and the DDT point raised above. Papers discussing the increase in the population of Carrion crows cite increases in nesting success and with earlier laying (perhaps an effect of climate change) as the main drivers for this change. Magpies increased in abundance because of their adaptation to urban and suburban locations (much like Herring gulls) but their numbers are declining again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightswoodBear Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Rizzo said: I managed to get myself into an argument on facebook with one of these recently and had the attached graphic thrown at me. Conveniently missing the point that sparrow hawks and buzzards were nearly persecuted out of existance by game keepers and struggled to reproduce due to the massive amounts of DDT that were thrown about in the 50's and 60's which led to their numbers crashing to near extinction levels. Also fails to take into account the massive loss of habitat and insects and the fact that all over the world predator numbers are influenced by available prey numbers and not the other way around. But yeah, its us townies that don't understand basic ecology. I get loads of Bullfinches in my garden, so it's fine. ETA: here's a photo of one from the other day with one of its wee Greenfinch pals. Edited May 2, 2019 by KnightswoodBear 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizzo Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, KnightswoodBear said: I get loads of Bullfinches in my garden, so it's fine. ETA: here's a photo of one from the other day with one of its wee Greenfinch pals. That was preciecly the argument the guy countered with (sorry I know your post is tongue in cheek). "I see _______ on my land therefore what happens elsewhere is irrelevant." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizzo Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 31 minutes ago, RiG said: That graphic is something else Anyone trying to link the increase / decrease between the groups with one another is having a laugh. It's well documented that intensification of farming led to a sharp drop in birds such as Tree sparrows, Bullfinches etc. for obvious reasons - destruction of habitat, reduction of food sources, lack of suitable wintering habitat due to less stubble present in fields because of winter sowing (particularly important for Yellowhammer) and so on. The species that have increased in population during that time haven't done so because they've chomped their way through those other birds but more that persecution levels have fallen in the case of raptor species and the DDT point raised above. Papers discussing the increase in the population of Carrion crows cite increases in nesting success and with earlier laying (perhaps an effect of climate change) as the main drivers for this change. Magpies increased in abundance because of their adaptation to urban and suburban locations (much like Herring gulls) but their numbers are declining again. I tried to explain predator-prey relationship models but I think the guys brain leaked out his ears. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boulderdomb Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Surely re-introducing Lynx and Wolves are dangerous to the people that regularly walk the munros, west highland way etc every year? Will there be any laws and regulations on weapons to defend yourself should you encounter one? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 Glen Affric is like another world. I read somewhere it technically counts as rainforest - I had no idea you could get rainforest outside places like Brazil!I’ve always wanted to go to to Glen Affric and now that I have permanently moved not far from it I will be heading there for the weekend very soon.There are other “Celtic rainforests” across the west coast of Scotland, including one right next to Oban.https://www.scotsman.com/regions/inverness-highlands-islands/ancient-woodland-in-oban-added-to-chain-of-rainforest-sites-1-4874144These are fascinating and precious ecosystems that we should be enhancing and expanding. Living in New Zealand 3 years ago was a major eye opener for me. It is quite often referred to as Scotland on steroids, which to a certain extent is true, but what NZ has that we don’t are vast mountainous rainforests that stretch for probably hundreds of km. Huge, magical wildernesses. I can only dream of Scotland having such environments. It is achievable if we make it happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 Imagine what a country we would have if we turned this:(Generic grouse moor)To this:(Cairngorms)Into this:(Glen Affric) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 20 hours ago, Adam101 said: Cheers Mixu! Whenever you and @jamamafegan post on these threads I realise how little I know about Scotland's environment you are a couple of gems here! Thanks Many Thanks Kind Regards Thanks Many Thanks Kind Regards (A couple of) Gem(s). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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