Money worries at Stenny

[parsforlife]

It is a strange one as from the outside Stenhousemuir has almost appeared a model club.

Infact was Darroch not elected by his fellow small clubs to sit on SPFL Board?

As others have noted, you've got income from an artificial pitch, the tenancy of East Stirlingshire and played Rangers twice in L2 plus in a cup last season.

Where do you imagine moving to, btw?

Would still need to be a licensed ground for LL.

Do they not have plans to move to their own stadium? Tho that would likely affect stenny just the same wether shire are an spfl of LL club, given you would imagine the ground would be spfl compliant.

I'm also bewildered here, for the reasons stated by others.

The only reasons/ excuses I can see is that stenny haven't planned for expenditure/loss of revenue such as replacing the pitch surface which was replaced bang on schedule, i believe stenny themselves in a FIFA article about 3G pitches that the surface lasts 8-10 years, so replacing it after 8 shouldn't have been a surprise, especially with it being obvious even last summer that the pitch was nearing the end of its lifespan.

They also seemed to have possibly planned for income such as cup runs or player sales, which as stated should be an bonus, not expected.

As for Cameron saying the pitches are a false ecomony, he's wrong, the pitches make money of that's there's no doubt, the maths adds up, however you of course need to keep some of that aside for things like replacing the surface and replacing the whole groundworks etc after about 20-25 years.

[ayrmad]

Well your chairman is an idiot then. Clubs should put away £10k every year into a replacement fund to cover the cost of relaying the pitch. They last 10 years. The pitches make money, of that there's no doubt.

TBF to Lachlan, he was using the fact that Ayr has quite a few plastic pitches already to downplay their value to Ayr United.

[parsforlife]

I can't speak for Ayr but there's several in west fife, but they run at close to capacity with teams still training in gym halls or old astro pitches, so there's a demand for more, it wouldn't surprise me if the situation in Ayr was similar.

[Neilly]

How much were they giving Eric Paton a week again?

£350 quid a week paid by an external source. My source is from the external source two weeks ago when we had a wee chat aboot it. Not the 500-600 a week as believed by some.

I honestly don't see the big palaver about this we are in no threat of administration and will be better off than most part time clubs in the country. There is nothing wrong with cutting costs accordingly and at least they are keeping the fans in the loop.

We will still be here next season as Scott Booth leads the charge to the Lowland League.

[diegomarahenry]

The only reasons/ excuses I can see is that stenny haven't planned for expenditure/loss of revenue such as replacing the pitch surface which was replaced bang on schedule, i believe stenny themselves in a FIFA article about 3G pitches that the surface lasts 8-10 years, so replacing it after 8 shouldn't have been a surprise, especially with it being obvious even last summer that the pitch was nearing the end of its lifespan.

They also seemed to have possibly planned for income such as cup runs or player sales, which as stated should be an bonus, not expected.

As for Cameron saying the pitches are a false ecomony, he's wrong, the pitches make money of that's there's no doubt, the maths adds up, however you of course need to keep some of that aside for things like replacing the surface and replacing the whole groundworks etc after about 20-25 years.

Cameron was almost forced into meeting the fans shortly after the start of Roberts second season.

We had 2 home games with Rangers that season and Roberts had stupidly been announcing the players he was trying to sign, most went to Stenny and Brechin for more money, two clubs with a smaller fan base etc and many of the support thought Cameron was going to pocket the cash as he obviously wasn't going to increase the wage budget(the story going about was he'd cut it from the original)

But Camerons take was, we shouldn't be spending money we might make, other teams were paying unsustainable wages to players on the basis of Rangers being in the league, a league they weren't going to win anyway

[parsforlife]

What's the ownership like at stenny? I know you are a CIC but are there any major parties involved?

[The Moonster]

£350 quid a week paid by an external source. My source is from the external source two weeks ago when we had a wee chat aboot it. Not the 500-600 a week as believed by some.

I honestly don't see the big palaver about this we are in no threat of administration and will be better off than most part time clubs in the country. There is nothing wrong with cutting costs accordingly and at least they are keeping the fans in the loop.

We will still be here next season as Scott Booth leads the charge to the Lowland League.

So, where's all the money gone/going? I agree there's nothing wrong with cutting costs accordingly, in fact that's entirely right but I'm struggling to see why Stenny are different from other part time clubs when they have more revenue streams than just about every other part time side in the country.

[vikingTON]

Stenny got a grant for the pitch however teams such as ourselves have funded it on our own.

First time for everything considering the taxpayer's largesse in funding your club for years.

The pitches make money, of that there's no doubt.

They make and save clubs an astronomical amount of money - in relation to turnover.

Evidence for these fairly basic assertions please. A pitch that needs to be replaced at £100k a pop every decade is a fairly major burden for any part-time side.

[theoriginalhedge]

Well your chairman is an idiot then. Clubs should put away £10k every year into a replacement fund to cover the cost of relaying the pitch. They last 10 years. The pitches make money, of that there's no doubt.

Your maths must have let you down at school.

Stenny's original pitch laid in 2006 . Replacement laid in 2014 . I make it 8 years.

As diego says, the more they are used , the shorter their lifespan.

Also, I would like to see the club who religiously set aside money for a pitch ........especially with an ambitious manager continually trying to strenthen his squad !

[theoriginalhedge]

I would imagine every single club with an artificial surface will be paying into a replacement fund, in fact ones that have received council funding it will be mandatory for them to pay this every month as part of the agreement.

They make and save clubs an astronomical amount of money - in relation to turnover.

Montrose haven't . They are really worried.

[strichener]

Unusually, I find myself agreeing with VT.

Lets see the basis under which a single full size pitch is profitable.

[theoriginalhedge]

Do they not have plans to move to their own stadium? Tho that would likely affect stenny just the same wether shire are an spfl of LL club, given you would imagine the ground would be spfl compliant.

I'm also bewildered here, for the reasons stated by others.

The only reasons/ excuses I can see is that stenny haven't planned for expenditure/loss of revenue such as replacing the pitch surface which was replaced bang on schedule, i believe stenny themselves in a FIFA article about 3G pitches that the surface lasts 8-10 years, so replacing it after 8 shouldn't have been a surprise, especially with it being obvious even last summer that the pitch was nearing the end of its lifespan.

They also seemed to have possibly planned for income such as cup runs or player sales, which as stated should be an bonus, not expected.

As for Cameron saying the pitches are a false ecomony, he's wrong, the pitches make money of that's there's no doubt, the maths adds up, however you of course need to keep some of that aside for things like replacing the surface and replacing the whole groundworks etc after about 20-25 years.

On that last paragraph alone , I think one major thing has been forgotten. The original pitches were mainly 3G ( Montrose's I think was pre 3G ) . With the ongoing improvement surfaces , now 4G and possibly better ones, comes an escallation in costs. What was originally £100k to replace will now probably be £150k . It's not as straightforward as you suggest.

There is also the fact that the majority of players hate playing on them. But when have people's opinions mattered when money is involved ?

[KD1711]

£3K in revenue in a month?

Was for the week, and this was on a week where the weather was absolutely terrible, think it was when we had the snow for a few weeks straight. I'd imagine they do a great turn out it, especially if that's considered a bad week.

[Muzza81]

They pitches are meant to last 10 years, just because one didn't I fail to see how that equates to bad maths?

I was heavily involved in the running of a local 3G facility for my youth football club. We took on the running of the pitch and even at that level there was money to be maid. £10k a year is absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. If marketed correctly they should be in used every hour of every evening and over the weekends.

Clubs will also be saving themselves a fortune as they wont need to rent pitches out - that includes their entire youth teams as well.

You can charge £80+ for an hour on these pitches and people will pay it.

As I've said, ive the council have any input in the pitch they will ask for £10k every year to put into a replacement fund. There's no ifs or buts or the manager can spend it. Saying that part time clubs would spend their pitch fund of players is pretty naive.

People don't like them and don't want them to be successful. But they are. Obviously the more and more that pop up will see demand fall and subsequently income will fall.

[Muzza81]

There is also the fact that the majority of players hate playing on them. But when have people's opinions mattered when money is involved ?

Ah that old made up cliche.

[diegomarahenry]

Clubs will also be saving themselves a fortune as they wont need to rent pitches out - that includes their entire youth teams as well.

Also costing themselves a fortune as its not being paid for when the main tenant needs it

As I've said, ive the council have any input in the pitch they will ask for £10k every year to put into a replacement fund. There's no ifs or buts or the manager can spend it. Saying that part time clubs would spend their pitch fund of players is pretty naive.

People don't like them and don't want them to be successful. But they are. Obviously the more and more that pop up will see demand fall and subsequently income will fall.

Do the council ask for money to be paid? has the council asked for money to be paid? what if the grant was from the lottery or Sport Scotland? or a venture capitalist who is taking a % of profits

To think that, when the majority of all football clubs live hand to mouth, they will allow tens of thousands of pounds to sit in a bank for years is pretty naive, some clubs at this level have offered players a bonus based on what the takings are from a fruit machine in the social club.

[strichener]

They pitches are meant to last 10 years, just because one didn't I fail to see how that equates to bad maths?

I was heavily involved in the running of a local 3G facility for my youth football club. We took on the running of the pitch and even at that level there was money to be maid. £10k a year is absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. If marketed correctly they should be in used every hour of every evening and over the weekends.

Clubs will also be saving themselves a fortune as they wont need to rent pitches out - that includes their entire youth teams as well.

You can charge £80+ for an hour on these pitches and people will pay it.

As I've said, ive the council have any input in the pitch they will ask for £10k every year to put into a replacement fund. There's no ifs or buts or the manager can spend it. Saying that part time clubs would spend their pitch fund of players is pretty naive.

People don't like them and don't want them to be successful. But they are. Obviously the more and more that pop up will see demand fall and subsequently income will fall.

£33.60 to rent one from Aberdeenshire Council.

[terracingtam]

Your maths must have let you down at school.

Stenny's original pitch laid in 2006 . Replacement laid in 2014 . I make it 8 years.

As diego says, the more they are used , the shorter their lifespan.

Also, I would like to see the club who religiously set aside money for a pitch ........especially with an ambitious manager continually trying to strenthen his squad !

You want to see a club that sets money aside to replace the pitch ?? Got a spare few minutes for a drive to Forfar?

[Stevie Aitken's Love Child]

£33.60 to rent one from Aberdeenshire Council.

Is that a full pitch? I used to play seven a sides on a third of a pitch in Greenock, and it was £35 an hour, and that was 4 and a half years ago now, so it's probably gone up in price since then.

[The Moonster]

Was for the week, and this was on a week where the weather was absolutely terrible, think it was when we had the snow for a few weeks straight. I'd imagine they do a great turn out it, especially if that's considered a bad week.

Fair enough. Even if we assume that Stenny aren't making as much as the pitches at Airdrie, would say £1K a week be reasonable (if a bit low)? There's roughly £50K extra that Stenny have over most other teams, coupled with whatever they charge Shire every second week on top of their normal income and I can't understand why they're struggling here.