HibeeJibee Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Despite the forecast doom of Armageddon, nuclear winter, slow lingering death and social unrest, it looks like yet more good news for Scottish crowds outwith the Old Firm. Plenty positives. With the Championship having reached MD18 a few weeks ago and the Premiership making MD22 this weekend, it's now possible to look at the interim figures for this season (i.e. after each club has played everyone else once home & once away). It's not a perfect comparison but it's the best we'll get until May. There are some negatives - crowds continue to fall at Motherwell and Kilmarnock, and a few others have been suppressed by their poor position and results (e.g. St Mirren and Ross County). But strong performances from the city teams and modest growth in other places are reasons for general positivity, IMO, and certainly not common gloominess. Here's the figures for all clubs which play in the top tier now or did during the previous 4 seasons. Club '11-12 '12-13 '13-14 '14-15 Celtic 50,904 46,917 47,079 43,265 * Aberdeen 9,297 9,611 12,918 13,091 Dundee Utd 7,482 7,547 7,599 8,631 * Dundee 4,224 5,958 4,738 7,136 Motherwell 5,951 5,362 5,175 4,517 * St Johns'e 4,170 3,712 3,806 4,375 Kilmarnock 5,537 4,647 4,250 4,092 St Mirren 4,493 4,389 4,511 4,037 Inverness 4,023 4,038 3,558 3,722 Ross Cou'y 2,874 4,430 3,787 3,503 * Partick 2,345 3,614 5,001 3,424 * Hamilton 1,770 1,231 1,436 2,977 -------------------------------------------- Rangers 46,362 45,744 42,657 32,375 Hearts 13,381 13,163 14,123 15,964 Hibernian 9,909 10,489 11,027 10,596 Dunferm'e 4,799 3,796 3,331 2,712 * Celtic v St Johnstone cancelled - likely doesn't affect Celtic figure * Dundee Utd v Kilmarnock postponed - slightly inflates Dundee Utd figure * Motherwell v Inverness cancelled - slightly inflates Motherwell figure * Ross County v Partick postponed - slightly inflates Ross County figure * Partick v Celtic postponed - substantially deflates Partick figure Key: Italics - in 2nd tier Underline - in 3rd / 4th tiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wragg Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 If we're talking actual attendances then clearly the gruesome twosome's figures can't be taken at all seriously. Is it just their defiance or are anyother clubs habitually inclined to include all tickets sold in their 'attendance' figure? Totally absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Caley's figures over the last 2 seasons are shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 If we're talking actual attendances then clearly the gruesome twosome's figures can't be taken at all seriously. Is it just their defiance or are anyother clubs habitually inclined to include all tickets sold in their 'attendance' figure? Totally absurd. This point arises every year and yes everyone knows that Rangers and Celtic publish 'tickets sold' not 'people present'. However, they have done so for many years, so it doesn't affect the ability to use the figures to compare their crowds between seasons. Also in economic terms (which is a common reason for crowd concern) 'tickets sold' would be a good measure anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_14 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Why are Caley's figures lower? Doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Inverness is an interesting one. Obviously the appearance of Ross County in 2012-13 must have helped and they almost qualified for Europe. I'd guess that last season and this season the derby crowds have dropped, and they had no end-of-season chase last season finishing a solid 5th? Let's be fair to them, however - they're about 2/5 the way to recovering the previous 4,000 mark, and have a 2nd home derby to come. When you look at the cities it's pretty remarkable though. Despite the demise of Rangers you've got Aberdeen putting almost 50% on their crowd. In Dundee you've got a city drawing almost 16,000 a fortnight just now, when it was not even 12,000 back in 2011-12. Then in Edinburgh, crowds which grew several thousand have stood-up despite both clubs being relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wragg Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 This point arises every year and yes everyone knows that Rangers and Celtic publish 'tickets sold' not 'people present'. However, they have done so for many years, so it doesn't affect the ability to use the figures to compare their crowds between seasons. Also in economic terms (which is a common reason for crowd concern) 'tickets sold' would be a good measure anyway. Personally I'd like to see everyone declare actual attendance figures because it shows up (not exclusively) any particular reason why ST holders are deciding not to bother en masse, as is being seen at both old firm clubs just now. If we look at attendance figures from 50 years ago I'd say most assume it to be a portrayal about how many attended a game (excluding those who climbed over the wall and got lifted over)! 50 years from now folk who are researching this kind of stuff may assume Celtic (for one) had blossoming attendances throughout the early 2010's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 If we're talking actual attendances then clearly the gruesome twosome's figures can't be taken at all seriously. Is it just their defiance or are anyother clubs habitually inclined to include all tickets sold in their 'attendance' figure? Totally absurd. Ah so our season ticket sales don't count. Very good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 You got the Dundee United/Caley and Motherwell/Kilmarnock postponements round the wrong way btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Ah so our season ticket sales don't count. Very good In terms of individual match attendances no, no they shouldn't.Why should they? If your cretinous season-ticket holders don't actually use their ticket to go through the turnstiles then that's their issue. Why should a factual account of that match's attendance ie those who actually watched the match include them? Be extremely specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Surely the Partick Thistle drop on last year is unusual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewing Taffies Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 In terms of individual match attendances no, no they shouldn't. Why should they? If your cretinous season-ticket holders don't actually use their ticket to go through the turnstiles then that's their issue. Why should a factual account of that match's attendance ie those who actually watched the match include them? Be extremely specific. f**k off back to the Junior Forum you tit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 In terms of individual match attendances no, no they shouldn't. Why should they? If your cretinous season-ticket holders don't actually use their ticket to go through the turnstiles then that's their issue. Why should a factual account of that match's attendance ie those who actually watched the match include them? Be extremely specific. Please go and have sex with a woman, you will most likely have to pay but its for the best. Regards, The PnB masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The figures for the two Dundee clubs are very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 f**k off back to the Junior Forum you tit Please go and have sex with a woman, you will most likely have to pay but its for the best. Regards, The PnB masses. Answer the question please, chumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Surely the Partick Thistle drop on last year is unusual? Last season we played Celtic, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Hibs, Killie, St Mirren and Aberdeen twice at Firhill and all of those away supports were very good (especially Dundee Utd on the first day of the season and Hearts in our 2nd home game). This season we've not had as many home games against the teams that bring the biggest away crowds and for one reason or another the ones we have played so far haven't brought as big crowds as before with Aberdeen being an early kick off, St Mirren, Killie and Motherwell coming in the middle of poor runs of form plus we're not the novelty we were last season as a fair number of teams in the Premier League hadn't been at Firhill in years. That's not the only reason as I think our home crowds have fallen a bit too, I'd guess us only winning 2 games at home all of last season might've hit season ticket sales a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Last season we played Celtic, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Hibs, Killie, St Mirren and Aberdeen twice at Firhill and all of those away supports were very good (especially Dundee Utd on the first day of the season and Hearts in our 2nd home game). This season we've not had as many home games against the teams that bring the biggest away crowds and for one reason or another the ones we have played so far haven't brought as big crowds as before with Aberdeen being an early kick off, St Mirren, Killie and Motherwell coming in the middle of poor runs of form plus we're not the novelty we were last season as a fair number of teams in the Premier League hadn't been at Firhill in years. That's not the only reason as I think our home crowds have fallen a bit too, I'd guess us only winning 2 games at home all of last season might've hit season ticket sales a bit. Makes sense, cheers. First year back as well probably helped season ticket sales as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Last season we played Celtic, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Hibs, Killie, St Mirren and Aberdeen twice at Firhill and all of those away supports were very good (especially Dundee Utd on the first day of the season and Hearts in our 2nd home game). This season we've not had as many home games against the teams that bring the biggest away crowds and for one reason or another the ones we have played so far haven't brought as big crowds as before with Aberdeen being an early kick off, St Mirren, Killie and Motherwell coming in the middle of poor runs of form plus we're not the novelty we were last season as a fair number of teams in the Premier League hadn't been at Firhill in years. That's not the only reason as I think our home crowds have fallen a bit too, I'd guess us only winning 2 games at home all of last season might've hit season ticket sales a bit. As stated many reasons for our drop. I feel the two pound on patg and rise in season ticket price has effectedthings to a degree. Drop in away attendances is a big factor too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Surely the Partick Thistle drop on last year is unusual? Clubs which have been outwith the top tier for a while usually see a drop-off after the first season back. Remember, the Celtic derby at New Year was off, too, and if that approached capacity their average would be over 4,000. And maybe the reasons given above too. It's still quite a big drop though, 1/5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForzaDundee Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Dundee as a city shites all over Aberdeen and Edinburgh. They are more rugby cities than football cities though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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