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Dundee gripped by gaelic fever


Reynard
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Has Gaelic ever produced any culture significant enough to be widely translated like Voltaire, Dante, Goethe, Confucius or Cervantes?

Why? I'm guessing that you're trying to suggest that Scottish Gaelic culture is somehow inferior to the cultures that produced these men?

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Here is what you originally said.

Since you have confirmed you meant Orkney and Shetland then I can confirm you are an ignorant buffoon.

Skara Brae

Now you will try to back track and go "but but but what I really meant was.... but you dont understand how clever I am .....but but that was not" ..... every country has them. Clowns who are sloppy thinkers, credulously believe fringe theories that fit their hypernationalism and always wallowing in a mythologised past.

And off course being too thick to read what was written so attacking strawmen. (The first rebuttal in Brigadoon's head will be to go at me for raising strawmen).

I accept that 'first settled' was wrong.

I'm still waiting on any evidence for any of your other claims esp your point at #75 about 'orthodox' histories.

Re. Gaelic in East Lothian - I spoke to a local - Haddington - member of the Scottish Placenames Society some years ago who had collected a couple hundred Gaelic names in EL. Many were minor - aspects of fields or farms - but some significant ones still exist - Drem, Dunbar, Gullane, Ballencrieff (spelling?) and Garvald.

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Regardless, Gaelic was the majority language in most of Scotland for a long period and at least a large minority for a while elsewhere.

Even if it wasn't why would that mean that Gaelic shouldn't be promoted in the modern day? We've got an ancient language unique to Scotland that's an interesting part of the culture. Why not preserve it?

Oh and still no answer from Topcat.

Edited by ForeverSinging
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Why? I'm guessing that you're trying to suggest that Scottish Gaelic culture is somehow inferior to the cultures that produced these men?

Actually it was more a practical point.

If there are no monoglot Gaelic speakers left and, as appears to me, no significant literary legacy left behind then what would learning Gaelic allow an English Speaker to do that They can't do already?

It seems madness to spend time learning Gaelic that one could spend learning French or Mandarin.

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Actually it was more a practical point.

If there are no monoglot Gaelic speakers left and, as appears to me, no significant literary legacy left behind then what would learning Gaelic allow an English Speaker to do that They can't do already?

It seems madness to spend time learning Gaelic that one could spend learning French or Mandarin.

I do take the point. But you don't speak Gaelic though. So, how can you know?

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As a proportion of Scotland's spending how much do you think Gaelic deserves and what percentage would be inordinate?

We will always have bigger priorities. But the "schools and hospitals" argument doesn't really get us anywhere as you can't list societal priorities 1-100. For example I think Gaelic is more important than trident.

Tbh yes, I was thinking more on a educational level in schools, £25m per annum seems quite a lot given current austerity measures across regional spending, for a language so sparsely used.

By all means include learning about the Gaels and their language in the curriculum, but I think it could be better spent in breaking current barriers within the education system. We talk about being a modern inclusive Scotland, but separate our kids at such an early important stage of their development.

Edited by RedRob72
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Tbh yes, I was thinking more on a educational level in schools, £25m per annum seems quite a lot given current austerity measures across regional spending, for a language so sparsely used.

By all means include learning about the Gaels and their language in the curriculum, but I think it could be better spent in breaking current barriers within the education system. We talk about being a modern inclusive Scotland, but separate our kids at such an early important stage of their development.

They'll speak English though. Glasgow's Gaelic school is good. Folk want to go there.

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Re. Gaelic in East Lothian - I spoke to a local - Haddington - member of the Scottish Placenames Society some years ago who had collected a couple hundred Gaelic names in EL. Many were minor - aspects of fields or farms - but some significant ones still exist - Drem, Dunbar, Gullane, Ballencrieff (spelling?) and Garvald.

But what impact does that have on people's lives 1000 years later? Somewhere between exceedingly slim and none, I would have thought. The reality is that after only a few generations, the Gaelic speaking Scottish royal family went native in Lothian post-Malcolm Canmore and Queen Margaret and adopted Anglo-Saxon derived speech, which subsequently had a higher status in Scotland than it did in England where Norman French very much held sway post-1066. Chaucer was mentioned earlier in the thread. Try comparing the original lingo of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales with that of Barbour's The Brus and odds on you'll find the latter a lot easier to read because it's significantly closer to modern English as well as modern Scots. That's an angle that you will never see on a BBC history documentary, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to fit the preferred narrative in a Scottish angle either because middle class Scotland is still fixated with the whole phoney Highlands romanticism craze started by the arch-Tory reactionary Sir Walter Scott.

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But what impact does that have on people's lives 1000 years later? Somewhere between exceedingly slim and none, I would have thought. The reality is that after only a few generations, the Gaelic speaking Scottish royal family went native in Lothian post-Malcolm Canmore and Queen Margaret and adopted Anglo-Saxon derived speech, which subsequently had a higher status in Scotland than it did in England where Norman French very much held sway post-1066. Chaucer was mentioned earlier in the thread. Try comparing the original lingo of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales with that of Barbour's The Brus and odds on you'll find the latter a lot easier to read because it's significantly closer to modern English as well as modern Scots. That's an angle that you will never see on a BBC history documentary, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to fit the preferred narrative in a Scottish angle either because middle class Scotland is still fixated with the whole phoney Highlands romanticism craze started by the arch-Tory reactionary Sir Walter Scott.

Scott may have played a bigger part than others in the rise of highland romanticism but he didn't start it.

James McPherson's Ossian fraud predates Scott's birth by a decade.

Scott declared himself to have been a big fan of Ossian during his teenage years.

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