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HibeeJibee

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If memory serves me correctly Linlithgow have theirs for a year then they have to show a commitment to join the pyramid system.

That's not the case. Linlithgow has a derogation from the sfa and there is no limit of time on it. Fair to say that it will be reviewed at some stage but it won't necessarily form part of any review which considers whether they still meet the core components of the licence as it applies to every other club.

Pretty certain that the SJFA are looking at their structure just now with a view to demonstrating an overarching commitment of some sort to the pyramid. They must know that simply hooking to the existing LL will not find any favour with their members hence the move towards trying to develop a Lowland junior league - perhaps as a stepping stone to ensure their members are in a competitive environment whilst developing standards as they go.

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Fair enough after a five minute search I couldn't find the post that I was looking for. I seem to remember something being said along the lines that you had a grace period to embrace the pyramid system or the license will be revoked. I must have dreamt it.

I cannot get my head around the SJFA's proposed new league structure. It sounds like another version of the Lowland League. Can you explain to me why it can be part of the pyramid (to justify licencing criteria) when the participating clubs do not want to be promoted from it?

In any case I cannot see the SFA sanctioning a rival set up.

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I don't think you are wrong in terms of the period of grace thing but it wasn't time specific.

The sjfa thing is another Lowland League but it won't require formal club licencing. I suspect it is a halfway house initially to demonstrate a shift being made without putting the fear of god in their members. I don't think it will work because the West teams are implacably opposed to travelling anywhere. I suspect this will end up on the back burner and that Linlithgow will end up with a decision to make. I don't think Linlithgow will be alone though - I suspect others are already considering their position.

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Fair enough after a five minute search I couldn't find the post that I was looking for. I seem to remember something being said along the lines that you had a grace period to embrace the pyramid system or the license will be revoked. I must have dreamt it.

I cannot get my head around the SJFA's proposed new league structure. It sounds like another version of the Lowland League. Can you explain to me why it can be part of the pyramid (to justify licencing criteria) when the participating clubs do not want to be promoted from it?

In any case I cannot see the SFA sanctioning a rival set up.

What makes it even more laughable is that there's some in Ayrshire wanting a return to the regional leagues.

I'm sure the likes of Lugar Boswell Thistle and Muirkirk must be overjoyed at the exciting prospect of the locals reading in their Sunday papers & Ayrshire Post about the latest mauling at the hands of Auchinleck Talbot, Beith, Irvine Meadow, etc year in year out - bound to have them rushing to open their wallets and purses to go to the games, buy their fundraisers, etc.

Two years on, and unashamed selfishness rather than progress dominates their thinking. Will Linlithgow Rose finally reach the end of their tethers over a set up which rewards frittering money on short term success on the field and punishes long term development in facilities for fans and players alike? Time will tell.

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With no SJFA presence to speak of for many decades, youth football (and for that matter rugby which also has a "Semi-Junior" league) is called junior football in the Borders. I think the same thing happens in Dumfries & Galloway and possibly elsewhere.

Scottish Borders Junior FA runs various Border Junior Leagues and associated cups at 13s, 14s, 15s and 17s level.

As a youngster from that part of the world, I used to scan the Junior results column in the Sunday paper - and wonder why none of our local boys club competitions appeared. I was a good way through my teens until I understood the subtleties of the situation. I can personally recall more than one instance of a grown man, with football interests, wondering if kids had been let into the Scottish Cup in 2008.

I suspect swathes of the Scottish population, particularly non-football fans and/or those outwith the central belt, would not realise "Junior" doesn't mean kids.

Edited by HibeeJibee

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I only became aware of "junior" football (not the kids version) a wee while after starting my EoS Spartansdom, that said I'm still not exactly sure why it exists?

Grimbo

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that said I'm still not exactly sure why it exists?

Tbh, I think it's like Lord Palmerston's observation on the Schleswig-Holstein Question.

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Tbh, I think it's like Lord Palmerston's observation on the Schleswig-Holstein Question.

Always preferred Pitt the Elder myself

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I only became aware of "junior" football (not the kids version) a wee while after starting my EoS Spartansdom, that said I'm still not exactly sure why it exists?

Grimbo

Because for whatever reason, the SFA (and their affiliated county associations/leagues) weren't interested in accepting all clubs under their mantle. Those rejected formed their own affiliations and the SJFA was created as the national focus. The rest, as they say, is history

Edited by The Old Northerner

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With no SJFA presence to speak of for many decades, youth football (and for that matter rugby which also has a "Semi-Junior" league) is called junior football in the Borders. I think the same thing happens in Dumfries & Galloway and possibly elsewhere.

Scottish Borders Junior FA runs various Border Junior Leagues and associated cups at 13s, 14s, 15s and 17s level.

As a youngster from that part of the world, I used to scan the Junior results column in the Sunday paper - and wonder why none of our local boys club competitions appeared. I was a good way through my teens until I understood the subtleties of the situation. I can personally recall more than one instance of a grown man, with football interests, wondering if kids had been let into the Scottish Cup in 2008.

I suspect swathes of the Scottish population, particularly non-football fans and/or those outwith the central belt, would not realise "Junior" doesn't mean kids.

I personally got fucking seek right quick at having to explain the 'junior' thing

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Because for whatever reason, the SFA (and their affiliated county associations/leagues) weren't interested in accepting all clubs under their mantle. Those rejected formed their own affiliations and the SJFA was created as the national focus. The rest, as they say, is history

Not quite true.

What happened was in the early days there was a series of competing leagues and competitions. Even as late as the 1920s there was a rebel "Central League" which paid players more money than those in the SFL set up could afford, and later there was the Intermediate rebel league of Junior and non-League Senior sides (some being recent fall outs from the SFL)

There was already another alternative league around called the Scottish Football Alliance consisting of those clubs which felt they'd been hard done by being left out or voted out of the Scottish Football League (St Bernard's, Cowlairs, Northern, Morton, Airdrie, Kilmarnock, Partick Thistle, Royal Albert, Linthouse, etc), and in turn a Scottish Football Federation (all later largely absorbed in the SFL)

The Junior Leagues started not because they were rejected, but was a deliberate attempt by those who knew they were too late in the day to ever compete in the "big kids" league to set up an alternative system of their own - the original "Scottish Juniors" were little more than a previous Glasgow and District League renamed before expanding. It is noticeable that Benburb and Linthouse were near neighbours and equally as strong (Linthouse being the football club attached to a general sports and athletic club), yet both took different courses.

The Hibernian and Hearts carry on with the SFA very much encapsulated how much a fiasco the game was run even back then, where Hearts would be fined for playing the "unaffiliated" Hibernian (whom the SFA wouldn't affiliate because they were Irish Catholics), and promptly hold a match that weekend against Hibs to raise the funds to pay off the fine plus plenty left over, would be fined again, etc, etc. until the SFA gave up saw sense.

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Not quite true.

What happened was in the early days there was a series of competing leagues and competitions. Even as late as the 1920s there was a rebel "Central League" which paid players more money than those in the SFL set up could afford, and later there was the Intermediate rebel league of Junior and non-League Senior sides (some being recent fall outs from the SFL)

That's a confusion of leagues with associations. The "rebel" Central League clubs were, AFAIA, all SFA affiliiated. Their league successfully filled a gap left by the SFL's disinterest in accepting new members

The Intermediates were a large bunch who broke from the Juniors because they didn't feel as though the SJFA were giving them any protection over the age old question of "poaching"

As associations go

SFA 1873

SJFA 1886

SAFA 1909

Edited by The Old Northerner

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Right thanks lads, that's cleared it up for me, next time I'm back down south in the pub & I get asked what's with the Junior football? Aye it's the kids game, mines a pint of old perculier. Sorted :)

Grimbo

Edited by Grim O'Grady

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Tbh, I think it's like Lord Palmerston's observation on the Schleswig-Holstein Question.

In case anyone was wondering:

Only three people have ever really understood the Schleswig-Holstein business—the Prince Consort, who is dead—a German professor, who has gone mad—and I, who have forgotten all about it.

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In case anyone was wondering:

Only three people have ever really understood the Schleswig-Holstein businessthe Prince Consort, who is deada German professor, who has gone madand I, who have forgotten all about it.

Cheers Lurky, I googled it too :)

But htf was HJ aware of it? He never ceases to amaze.

Grimbo

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