Gartcairn Army Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 No, it's about clubs playing at their appropriate level. Yes you are, ground ownership is nowhere near as common as people like to believe especially if you add clubs that have finance related to their ground. A good lease agreement is easily sufficient for clubs security. I don't see how ground sharing is that different to clubs who are sole tenants. Ever heard of a contract? You can't just kick out a tennant because you feel like it. You can at the end of the lease when they are now competing at the same level. Now where do they go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 You can at the end of the lease when they are now competing at the same level. Now where do they go? They are likely to have a least a years notice,(think licensing request that, with 5 year security for higher licensing) which should allow for other plans. However I'm not sure why the situation you have described matters, I can't see it happening, why on earth would you want to get rid of a good rent paying tenant? The income from that is significant and no club is likely to turn that down(for what?). Besides many of the ground shares don't rent from the other club, they rent directly from owners such as councils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gartcairn Army Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Just doesnt make sense to me. All the best to all clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidAl Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 If it can be reported in a Borders newspaper that Coldstream got their licence OK, it does seem a bit odd that we have heard nothing elsewhere. Is it possible that there could be an appeals process that first has to unfold? Could be a bit of a cooling off period just now while the league bodies digest/work out who's going to be playing where. There's the potential for a bit of embarrassment for the LL if their four previously unlicenced clubs remain so: do they accept a smaller league at a time when they're supposed to being increasing in depth, or do they give clubs another year to get licencing sorted out? If the LL don't accept the unlicenced clubs then the situation with the EoS doesn't look as bad initially, with Vale and the two unis likely to be playing there next season (if they had applied by the end of March deadline). So that'd cancel out Coldstream & Civil (maybe) going to the LL and Easthouses going to the juniors. I take it clubs in the EoS have a bit of a dilemma as to whether to stay put, invest towards licencing (to the detriment of the football on the pitch?) and be prepared for higher travel costs playing within the larger 'lowland' region, or to accept where they are in terms of infrastructure and join the juniors for a more local, competitive league. What would be the fate of BSC if unlicenced at this point? That maybe explains some of the reticence of junior clubs up until now: too costly to get licenced, within too stringent a timeframe, with too much uncertainty about where they'll end up if they fail to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 GartcairnArmy: It's not true to say "so many clubs dont have their own stadium/facilities but they are still accepted into this league... i believe this is the same situation with several lowland league clubs" in any case? There are 2 clubs in the Lowland League which groundshare. One of those is Stirling University, which would seem to make complete sense given the alternative is them building a second stadium in the town. Other is BSC Glasgow which is the sort of situation you mean. I think they do have longterm ambitions of a venue of their own, though? Think that has been mentioned before. It's not unique to LL anyway. Stenhousemuir & East Stirlingshire groundshare (both SPFL). So do QotS & Heston Rovers (SPFL/SOSFL respectively), Lothian THV & Tynecastle (both EOSFL), Belshill & Vale of Clyde and Petershill & Rossvale and Clydebank & Yoker and Larkhall & Royal Albert (all in your own West Juniors!), Bridge of Don & Aberdeen Uni (North Juniors). All across Scottish football, in and out of the pyramid, it's a minority practice. There are also various temporary groundshares while new stadiums are being built - e.g. Cove Rangers, Benburb, Renfrew, and Kirkintilloch Rob Roy. Personally I wouldn't like to see it becoming widespread but you make it sound like it's something to be ashamed of. It can be efficient and sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gartcairn Army Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 GartcairnArmy: It's not true to say "so many clubs dont have their own stadium/facilities but they are still accepted into this league... i believe this is the same situation with several lowland league clubs" in any case? There are 2 clubs in the Lowland League which groundshare. One of those is Stirling University, which would seem to make complete sense given the alternative is them building a second stadium in the town. Other is BSC Glasgow which is the sort of situation you mean. I think they do have longterm ambitions of a venue of their own, though? Think that has been mentioned before. It's not unique to LL anyway. Stenhousemuir & East Stirlingshire groundshare (both SPFL). So do QotS & Heston Rovers (SPFL/SOSFL respectively), Lothian THV & Tynecastle (both EOSFL), Belshill & Vale of Clyde and Petershill & Rossvale and Clydebank & Yoker and Larkhall & Royal Albert (all in your own West Juniors!), Bridge of Don & Aberdeen Uni (North Juniors). All across Scottish football, in and out of the pyramid, it's a minority practice. There are also various temporary groundshares while new stadiums are being built - e.g. Cove Rangers, Benburb, Renfrew, and Kirkintilloch Rob Roy. Personally I wouldn't like to see it becoming widespread but you make it sound like it's something to be ashamed of. It can be efficient and sensible. Oh not at all mate im not having a go i just dont understand why a club who dont have there own stadium would travel to play at another stadium 20 miles away. These clubs you speak about are in the middle of getting there own stadiums built etc and East stirling had there own ground for years. For me i think only clubs who have a stadium or are in the process of building a stadium should be playing in LL or why not just stay amateur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Not all those I mention are 'sharing during works'. What is the context of your "20 miles away" point? Stirling are groundsharing in their own town. BSCG are sharing in a district alongside their own part of Glasgow. Tynecastle's groundshare takes them back to their part of Edinburgh. Most of the Junior groundshares are through clubs being homeless or proximity. (Incidentally the groundshare of Rossvale at Petershill is an example of a club using a groundshare to step-up to a higher level and up in the Granite City you've a university with a non-uni as the lodger). East Stirlingshire have been at Ochilview (which is afterall in the East of Stirlingshire!) since 2008 and their move to Little Kerse in Grangemouth seems to be years away at best. People are talking about Clyde sharing with Shettleston!! It would be possible to totally ban groundsharing in the pyramid but I don't see the point... Towns like Stirling or Dumfries are best making better use of their existing facilities by using them every week, rather than building a second stadium. Glasgow University playing out of Airdrie would be a different scenario to these, granted. And is I presume your main interest given your location. Weren't they going to start utilising Firhill, adjacent to one of their campuses? http://spfl.co.uk/news/article/thistle-link-up-with-glasgow-uni/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gartcairn Army Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Not all those I mention are 'sharing during works'. What is the context of your "20 miles away" point? Stirling are groundsharing in their own town. BSCG are sharing in a district alongside their own part of Glasgow. Tynecastle's groundshare takes them back to their part of Edinburgh. Most of the Junior groundshares are through clubs being homeless or proximity. (Incidentally the groundshare of Rossvale at Petershill is an example of a club using a groundshare to step-up to a higher level and up in the Granite City you've a university with a non-uni as the lodger). East Stirlingshire have been at Ochilview (which is afterall in the East of Stirlingshire!) since 2008 and their move to Little Kerse in Grangemouth seems to be years away at best. People are talking about Clyde sharing with Shettleston!! It would be possible to totally ban groundsharing in the pyramid but I don't see the point... Towns like Stirling or Dumfries are best making better use of their existing facilities by using them every week, rather than building a second stadium. Glasgow University playing out of Airdrie would be a different scenario to these, granted. And is I presume your main interest given your location. Weren't they going to start utilising Firhill, adjacent to one of their campuses? http://spfl.co.uk/news/article/thistle-link-up-with-glasgow-uni/ Yes Glasgow Uni is the one that baffles me but i get your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Smiler Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 and I think that's the point as well unless they are goin to become airdire university. but it means that your team has the chance to go to the juniors or the seniors and good luck to you because we need to support growing vibrant clubs even if that means that others have had there time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Just doesnt make sense to me. All the best to all clubs Unless you can explain how ground sharing is hugely different to being a sole tenant then i will not be able to understand why people are so against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gartcairn Army Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Unless you can explain how ground sharing is hugely different to being a sole tenant then i will not be able to understand why people are so against them. Because surely the tennant has no control over their own future. If all these clubs start groundsharing we may run out od stadiums lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 A wee update Hibee - Royal Albert now play at Stonehouse's old park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Because surely the tennant has no control over their own future. If all these clubs start groundsharing we may run out od stadiums lol But how do ground sharing clubs have any less control(and whilst outright ownership is the best way to have control its an exaggeration to say renting clubs have none) Since this is about the lowland league why not look at the Stirling clubs, Albion we're renting the ground as sole tenants, this has been the long term situation, recently the uni also started renting the ground, are Albion any less secure now? are the uni less secure than Albion despite renting the same ground from the same owners? If Albion left the ground would the uni suddenly become stronger placed?(despite the terms of their lease being unaltered) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gartcairn Army Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 i get what your saying and i agree it works for lots of clubs but for others its not so easy. Airdrie sold their ground and moved to Cumbernauld which is only 10 minutes over the road and they lost 75% of their support and they have never came back even after moving back to airdrie. I suppose i believe every club should have a home not rent one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gartcairn Army Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 also if the sfa change the set up and bring back reserve football and clubs bring in youth teams. Where does that leave clubs who ground share??? they could be told that there is no room at the Inn. Where does that then leave the lowland league? In senior football i cant think of any clubs in scotland who share a ground permanently so surely promoting a club who ground shares is not the way forward for scottish football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 also if the sfa change the set up and bring back reserve football and clubs bring in youth teams. Where does that leave clubs who ground share??? they could be told that there is no room at the Inn. Where does that then leave the lowland league? In senior football i cant think of any clubs in scotland who share a ground permanently so surely promoting a club who ground shares is not the way forward for scottish football I can't see reserve football coming in with the way things stand, besides even if it did in not sure we'd see a situation of 'no room at the inn' how many teams have played out of airdrie(i know at least 4) or broadwood, cappielow as well(at least 3) this season? I believe stenny have had youth games in the morning and first team games in the afternoon before at ochilview, i think a situation of no space is a long way off. I share you're ideal of every club owning a ground of their own, but it's not in anyway feasible unless millions start falling from the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gartcairn Army Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 oh well mate thanks for your opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Hardy Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Firstly, if Glasgow Uni are to play in LL, and to play at Airdrie, I think it will be a ridiculous decision. I am ok with groundsharing when it is reasonably close to where you normally play. Had it been sharing at Firhill or Scotstoun then can't see any problem with that. On top of that my concern would be what their standard will be, at the moment they play in the Caledonian League and at that are bottom or near to it. Stirling Uni's 2nd XI played in this league and were comfortably in the top half, but considered it to be a move up grade to play in the East of Scotland where they haven't done well. A question I have for the experts on P&B, is the SFA member the same as an SFA license. Surely at this stage teams that have failed to gain the license should be replaced, but only by licensed teams, shouldn't be bringing unlicensed teams in on the promise they will get one. After all everyone has known when licenses should have been in place. Find the delay on the decisions regarding next season annoying, can only assume they are awaiting the finish of the East of Scotland season. Going back to the licence/member situation, Just wondering if Stirling Uni have license/member should they not also be included in the Stirlingshire Cup competition, though the draw for 2015/16 has been made without them, so the other way to look at it, have they not got the license? Time we had answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 also if the sfa change the set up and bring back reserve football and clubs bring in youth teams. Where does that leave clubs who ground share??? they could be told that there is no room at the Inn. Where does that then leave the lowland league? In senior football i cant think of any clubs in scotland who share a ground permanently so surely promoting a club who ground shares is not the way forward for scottish football But reserve sides also play at places like Toryglen and such. There are enough council run plastic pitches out there for smaller teams reserve/youth teams to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gartcairn Army Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 But reserve sides also play at places like Toryglen and such. There are enough council run plastic pitches out there for smaller teams reserve/youth teams to play So why cant LL teams do the same? Toryglen, Carluke 3G, Ravenscraig etc surely these facilities which are good and can handle at least 200 supporters should be good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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