newcastle broon Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 WW get slated for no having lights. Why should ww put themselves in financial danger for 3 max 4 mid-week games a season ? it's awright for LL teams wi existing lights. If teams from juniors are allowed a license into the Scottish Cup what's to stop ww keeping license like certain teams, going junior then, or am I missing something here.? Minimum of Easthouses Derby??? wi potential for dalkeith Penicuik Bonnyrigg Arniston nitten et al.... And a shot at senior Scots cup every year... No brainer if ye ask me and don't want to go that route but.... ??? After all how many LL clubs will be good enough to rise above the bottom tier of Scottish fitba ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Smiler Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Fundamentally what is wrong is that the area that the LL and the HL cover are too big to be an attractive proposition for any of the junior clubs. I was dreading AM soccer being accepted into the league as I feel we are at our limit for travelling now. A possibility of a team from north Fife in the Lowland League would just be a frightening for us. I see the next step being further regionalisation. The SPFL clubs are keeping their grip on power and status by saying "join us if you can put up with the long away midweek matches.". The "prize money" that they get for participating in the league may cover the cost of travelling but I feel it could be put to better use. I would like to see a top two national league with 24 clubs, then regionalised into LL and HL style conference divisions with perhaps 16 teams each and then further regionalisation below that "junior style". Eh? you are part of a league that commits you to travelling to Elgin on a Tuesday night if you win promotion and you are saying the lowlands is to big? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Smiler Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 All fair points. We're a million miles away from the Juniors getting involved, and the likelihood of them doing so lessens with every passing day. The SJFA will never accept being a feeder to the HL/LL, they would want parity as a starting point if they ever showed interest. What we'll end up with is a so-called Pyramid that ends at HL/LL level, with a handful of clubs applying every season to get in if there is a vacancy. Maybe it needs SPFL clubs to set the agenda and insist on a strong LL with Junior involvement, otherwise they pull up the drawbridge again. good point and as far as i understand the juniors have been offered to be part of the pyramid at the same level as the HL and SL but just arent interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 good point and as far as i understand the juniors have been offered to be part of the pyramid at the same level as the HL and SL but just arent interested. I doubt it. The north juniors have presumably been offered nothing (and seem to generally be forgotten about in these discussions, they have no chance currently of getting into the pyramid regardless of it they want it or not). Surely the east/west juniors have only been offered to be in the Lowland League or are you suggesting that they've been offered the chance to form a third feeder league to the SPFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Eh? you are part of a league that commits you to travelling to Elgin on a Tuesday night if you win promotion and you are saying the lowlands is to big? We can look to change from within . The LL was the starting point of the change that was needed in Scottish Football. Now we have a pyramid structure in place, it can still be moulded further to improve. This is what the majority of the juniors fail to see. Once you are in, you can look to change the structure. If the lower SPFL leagues begin to fill up with ex Lowland, Highland and junior clubs, they will become the turkeys and can vote for Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice of Reason Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 ^ It says to me that the LL has drained the EoS of its best clubs and that Easthouses cannot afford the £40k+ (quoted in the Strollers article, above) on improvements to get back to that level of competition. It is becoming increasingly obvious that clubs have a choice between regional and national football. Junior football is a strong regional product and I can see why clubs might want to move to that. Equally there are other clubs that want to invest in development with an aim to playing in a national league. Clubs have the freedom of choice and we should support those developing both Junior and Senior football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 It is becoming increasingly obvious that clubs have a choice between regional and national football. Junior football is a strong regional product and I can see why clubs might want to move to that. Equally there are other clubs that want to invest in development with an aim to playing in a national league. Clubs have the freedom of choice and we should support those developing both Junior and Senior football. It's not as black and white as that. The pyramid system should encompass all the national and regional leagues with clubs finding whatever level suits them. There shouldn't be a big divide but unfortunately there is for historical reasons. In the English pyramid, a huge number of clubs will have no aspirations towards playing in a national league but they are still part of the pyramid system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calmac25 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 WW get slated for no having lights. Why should ww put themselves in financial danger for 3 max 4 mid-week games a season ? it's awright for LL teams wi existing lights. If teams from juniors are allowed a license into the Scottish Cup what's to stop ww keeping license like certain teams, going junior then, or am I missing something here.? Minimum of Easthouses Derby??? wi potential for dalkeith Penicuik Bonnyrigg Arniston nitten et al.... And a shot at senior Scots cup every year... No brainer if ye ask me and don't want to go that route but.... ??? After all how many LL clubs will be good enough to rise above the bottom tier of Scottish fitba ??? what level would you see Whitehill getting accepted into the juniors at? would you be happy with the south division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 WW get slated for no having lights. Why should ww put themselves in financial danger for 3 max 4 mid-week games a season ? it's awright for LL teams wi existing lights. If teams from juniors are allowed a license into the Scottish Cup what's to stop ww keeping license like certain teams, going junior then, or am I missing something here.? Minimum of Easthouses Derby??? wi potential for dalkeith Penicuik Bonnyrigg Arniston nitten et al.... And a shot at senior Scots cup every year... No brainer if ye ask me and don't want to go that route but.... ??? After all how many LL clubs will be good enough to rise above the bottom tier of Scottish fitba ??? Is that a plea for Whitehill Welfare to go Junior? do WW have a licence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Is that a plea for Whitehill Welfare to go Junior? do WW have a licence? Not a plea just my thoughts ??? Juniors are getting away with it year in year out in that they allowed in big Scottish with a license ? Shouldn't be allowed imo and yes ww have a license. Can anyone see a LL side doing a Ross County and going right through Scottish Leagues cause don't think ww will do it in my lifetime ? Isn't that what the pyramid about ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 what level would you see Whitehill getting accepted into the juniors at? would you be happy with the south division? You would have to start somewhere calmac but canny see it happening. My point was mainly that if you have a license there's nothing stopping a shot at the big Scottish every year whether LL or junior and personally think that's no right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gartcairn Army Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Hi Lads, I dont quite understand the lowland league process as to why there are so many clubs who dont have their own stadium/facilities but they are still accepted into this league. I understand that the winners of this league could potentially move into senior football however i dont understand why any club who seriously wants to do that would ground share with another club. EG - Glasgow Uni are ground sharing at Airdrie next season and will be very lucky to bring 50 supporters therefore the cost of the facilities will not allow this club to grow unless i am missing something??? i believe this is the same situation with several lowland league clubs. I represent Gartcairn Football Academy in Airdrie and we have over 700 kids and 300 adults plus we have our own park. The park does not have the requirements to step up to lowland league at the moment although its not to far away from Junior level and that is where we will start. we will attract over 500 supporters due to us being from the area and this should help us grow into a senior club in years to come. Am i missing something lads??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Not a plea just my thoughts ??? Juniors are getting away with it year in year out in that they allowed in big Scottish with a license ? Shouldn't be allowed imo and yes ww have a license. Can anyone see a LL side doing a Ross County and going right through Scottish Leagues cause don't think ww will do it in my lifetime ? Isn't that what the pyramid about ? If they don't have one, they have to win a very bloody difficult division to qualify in first place though (North excepted) so it's not as if it's a given. Pollok, one of the largest Junior clubs on paper, have only qualified twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Hi Lads, I dont quite understand the lowland league process as to why there are so many clubs who dont have their own stadium/facilities but they are still accepted into this league. I understand that the winners of this league could potentially move into senior football however i dont understand why any club who seriously wants to do that would ground share with another club. EG - Glasgow Uni are ground sharing at Airdrie next season and will be very lucky to bring 50 supporters therefore the cost of the facilities will not allow this club to grow unless i am missing something??? i believe this is the same situation with several lowland league clubs. I represent Gartcairn Football Academy in Airdrie and we have over 700 kids and 300 adults plus we have our own park. The park does not have the requirements to step up to lowland league at the moment although its not to far away from Junior level and that is where we will start. we will attract over 500 supporters due to us being from the area and this should help us grow into a senior club in years to come. Am i missing something lads??? Sharing of Stadia is quite common around the world. The Milan clubs are perhaps the best known examples. There are examples of Scottish clubs, East Stirlingshire at Stenhousemuir. It makes sense to share facilities to reduce costs where appropriate. Glasgow Uni at Airdrie is another matter all together. In my opinion we have too many Uni teams as it is. They are at an advantage over the rest of the league when it comes to funding. Is there another north Glasgow amateur club in a position to being able to afford the rent at Airdrie? The Uni teams also have next to no fans so bring nothing to the league in that respect. Tin hat on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Isn't part of the reason the Uni teams bring next to no fans is because they've not had access to a "proper" league? Can't see many Glasgow Uni students going through to Airdrie but, if they were playing closer to the uni, I could see them building up a small support from the student body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Isn't part of the reason the Uni teams bring next to no fans is because they've not had access to a "proper" league? Can't see many Glasgow Uni students going through to Airdrie but, if they were playing closer to the uni, I could see them building up a small support from the student body. So Heriot-Watt and Edinburgh Uni are well supported? HWU especially have a captive audience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I dunno what numbers they get at the moment but there is potential for growth from all the Uni teams once the leagues get going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gartcairn Army Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Isn't part of the reason the Uni teams bring next to no fans is because they've not had access to a "proper" league? Can't see many Glasgow Uni students going through to Airdrie but, if they were playing closer to the uni, I could see them building up a small support from the student body. I agree 100% with that. I can understand a club ground sharing as it reduces costs however as soon as that club is in competition with the ground owners club they will be kicked out surely. Would it not make much more sense for any club joining the league to have their own facilities in their own area to allow them to grow? Airdrie have a 10,000 all seater stadium due to some idiot claiming SPL clubs need this a few years ago, that stadium has been full about 3 times in 10 years and its put Airdrie backwards as they dont even own the stadium anymore. I fear we could be doing the same here by clubs being successful on the park only to find when they need to step up they have nowhere to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Not a plea just my thoughts ??? Juniors are getting away with it year in year out in that they allowed in big Scottish with a license ?Shouldn't be allowed imo and yes ww have a license.Can anyone see a LL side doing a Ross County and going right through Scottish Leagues cause don't think ww will do it in my lifetime ? Isn't that what the pyramid about ? No, it's about clubs playing at their appropriate level. Hi Lads, I dont quite understand the lowland league process as to why there are so many clubs who dont have their own stadium/facilities but they are still accepted into this league. I understand that the winners of this league could potentially move into senior football however i dont understand why any club who seriously wants to do that would ground share with another club. EG - Glasgow Uni are ground sharing at Airdrie next season and will be very lucky to bring 50 supporters therefore the cost of the facilities will not allow this club to grow unless i am missing something??? i believe this is the same situation with several lowland league clubs. I represent Gartcairn Football Academy in Airdrie and we have over 700 kids and 300 adults plus we have our own park. The park does not have the requirements to step up to lowland league at the moment although its not to far away from Junior level and that is where we will start. we will attract over 500 supporters due to us being from the area and this should help us grow into a senior club in years to come. Am i missing something lads??? Yes you are, ground ownership is nowhere near as common as people like to believe especially if you add clubs that have finance related to their ground. A good lease agreement is easily sufficient for clubs security. I don't see how ground sharing is that different to clubs who are sole tenants. I agree 100% with that. I can understand a club ground sharing as it reduces costs however as soon as that club is in competition with the ground owners club they will be kicked out surely. Would it not make much more sense for any club joining the league to have their own facilities in their own area to allow them to grow? Airdrie have a 10,000 all seater stadium due to some idiot claiming SPL clubs need this a few years ago, that stadium has been full about 3 times in 10 years and its put Airdrie backwards as they dont even own the stadium anymore. I fear we could be doing the same here by clubs being successful on the park only to find when they need to step up they have nowhere to go! Ever heard of a contract? You can't just kick out a tennant because you feel like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Hi Lads, I dont quite understand the lowland league process as to why there are so many clubs who dont have their own stadium/facilities but they are still accepted into this league. I understand that the winners of this league could potentially move into senior football however i dont understand why any club who seriously wants to do that would ground share with another club. EG - Glasgow Uni are ground sharing at Airdrie next season and will be very lucky to bring 50 supporters therefore the cost of the facilities will not allow this club to grow unless i am missing something??? i believe this is the same situation with several lowland league clubs. I represent Gartcairn Football Academy in Airdrie and we have over 700 kids and 300 adults plus we have our own park. The park does not have the requirements to step up to lowland league at the moment although its not to far away from Junior level and that is where we will start. we will attract over 500 supporters due to us being from the area and this should help us grow into a senior club in years to come. Am i missing something lads??? Members - never mind winners - of this league are already in senior football. You mean national. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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