League Vacancies

[Burnie_man]

No sure what your getting at with City if you are a well run club with a hard working committee (you should know all about that can't be easy at your club or many clubs for that) and with finances in the right place to survive then it does nae matter if there's 10 or 10 000 fans coming through the gate ?

Oh I think it matters a lot, if they are not attracting any more fans in the LL than the EoS, what does that say about the attractiveness of the LL, and what would we expect should they reach the SPFL?

[LongTimeLurker]

Did Civil Service Strollers not apply??

Not sure on that, but thought I'd read somewhere that their ground upgrades are happening at too slow a pace to be ready in time for an inspection in May. They are definitely a possibility for a fifth applicant if that's not the case.

[newcastle broon]

Oh I think it matters a lot, if they are not attracting any more fans in the LL than the EoS, what does that say about the attractiveness of the LL, and what would we expect should they reach the SPFL?

Well al agree to disagree wi ye then, attractiveness of LL is simple,win it and you've a chance to progress at national level to the 4 Leagues already set up,fan base or no fan base.

Like I said earlier as long as clubs sound financially then there no problem, after all isn't there financial rewards for even reaching the spfl ?

Does anyone know how much hand outs the winners of play offs would get ?

[LongTimeLurker]

Just had a look at the CSS website and odds on they are applicant number five:

http://www.csstrollers.co.uk/item.php?pg=news&pd=1002&it=1

Wednesday the 18th March is the date for our next SFA License meeting with SFA Licensing officer Brian Mann.

Work has commenced at Marine Drive on the Perimeter fence which will enclose the pitch, the fence will be completed in time for our next home game against Easthouseson the 28th March.

Work on the spectator enclosure is due to start next week and we hope to have this in place by mid April.

After todays meeting with the SFA Strollers will be looking to attain their entry license at the May meeting of the license board.

[Jack Burton]

They've grabbed because they have nothing to lose.

Are you really saying that you'd rather have these clubs in the LL instead of established clubs with fans?

The West Of Scotland anomaly should have been addressed before any pyramid was started imo.The area with the largest poulation has no pyramid access,its farcical.

Why dont Clydebank join the LL then? One season playing against the non-established clubs with no fans and you would be back in division 3?

The juniors have known for years that a pyramid league was going to be setup and I don't think the SFA etc. could have waited any longer. I would have much preferred to see some of the big junior clubs in a pyramid league but they've all decided to stay in the juniors. I do think they will regret it in years to come much the same as the English teams who did not initially take part in their pyramid setup.

If a neutral is going to have a choice between going to go a ground with decent facilities to see a team in the league setup or a junior team in a dump of a ground then it will be a straight forward choice. The lowland league has also attracted a sponsor and the Ground hoppers up visting 4 or 5 grounds which pushed attendances up between 300 to 500 plus they have entry into the Scottish Cup. None of this is happening the juniors.

[honestly united]

The SFA should have forced the issue when the LL was set up in the first place, as the correct (IMO) set up should have been HL, EoSL and WoSL (3 league winners and bottom team in play off for promotion) and the seniors and juniors should have been forced to merge into one pyramid system (with more regionalised leagues under the top tiers so there would still be local leagues for local people), but unfortunately as with most other things the SFA didn't have the balls to force it through, so we are where we are.

Granted the teams that have applied are currently not the most exciting, inspiring or even credible, but thats the best that have applied. The juniors can snipe all they want but until they come to the table and actively participate nothing is going to change. TBH Im sure everyone would say they would much rather the 5 teams that applied were Talbot, Linlithgow, Irvine, Pollock and Boness but thats not the case, and now the LL is up and running what is it that the juniors want? Do they want to be part of the bigger picture? Are they happy to be bypassed by more ambitious organisations?

[Cicero]

You see, a lot of the so called "snipers" as you label them are supporters of a Pyramid, and despair at the ridiculous direction that it appears to be heading in. I'm sure you appreciate that.

What is your solution?

We cannot wait around for the juniors to make up their minds. What has been made pretty clear is that the majority of junior fans do not want to be a part of the pyramid. so the "ridiculous direction" is happening because of the dinosaurs who owe allegiance to the SJFA.

We have got what we have due to negotiation, nobody got what they would have liked at the beginning of the negotiation process. The SPFL clubs conceded some points just as the non league clubs (the SJFA were part of the negotiations). The juniors seem to be unwilling to accept the package that has been agreed by all the interested parties.

We should be leaving the juniors behind and work with what we have got. I would go further and withdraw their entries from the Scottish Cup. This is something that the SFA can do but it is not up to them to tell clubs which association they should belong to. There would be an outcry if the SFA told the junior clubs what to do. The juniors should be left themselves to decide their own fates.

[BassRock]

I'm quite certain that Duns FC have NOT applied.

I was at one of their matches a few months ago and one of their committee members said that it was too big a step for them at this time. They seem to be a very well run club and have developed their ground and set-up at THEIR pace so I'd expect them to stay in the East of Scotland League for at least this season and either apply next season or try and get there through promotion (s).

Also...

Why not get a selection of Junior teams, EofS teams, SofS teams, even Amateur teams and "others" into a cup competition with mini leagues of 4 or 6 teams so that clubs and supporters can at last at least begin to integrate without actually joining the LL? See how the other half lives...

Maybe get the group games played in August with a view to knock-out stages being played in the spring. Just a thought.

[Bankies Alive]

The SFA did try and withdraw the 4 Scottish Cup places that the Juniors get but it was voted down by the senior clubs.

Make of that what you will!

[Burnie_man]

As someone else has pointed out, for the likes of BSC, EDU, Cumbernauld etc, to form an adult team out of the blue and apply to join the 5^th tier of Scottish football, in some cases at a borrowed ground, holds very little risk. If it doesn’t work out then fair enough, fold the side and return to concentrating on youth football. Nothing lost, nothing gained. You can’t blame them for trying.

The same does not hold true of many of the larger Junior clubs, for reasons that have been discussed on numerous occasions.

Let’s look at it from a different perspective. Junior football is run by dinosaurs, we all know that, hence the reluctance of the SJFA to actively involve themselves in the pyramid discussions over the last few years and instead choose to sit on the side lines as plans are made. The SFA should have stood on them a whole lot more.

However, within the Junior game there are plenty of progressive Junior clubs, for example in the East we have Blackburn, Bathgate, Broxburn & Haddington to name just a few who have strong community links, growing youth set-ups, improving facilities, and some even have the devils lanterns. They also have grounds that would take very little to gain a licence. There will be other examples in the West.

Why do these clubs currently show little or no interest in joining the LL? These are the clubs that are preparing for the future, putting the foundations in place, you would have thought ideal candidates to get involved in the LL yet they appear happy in the so-called Junior backwaters. That is what needs to be understood.

Let’s not demonise the Junior game as a whole. What would serve Scottish football a lot better would be for the SFA to hold its hand up and admit that the Pyramid has gone a bit wrong and alienated these and many other Junior clubs, and take steps to engage directly with them and put in place a more workable and attractive system. If they don’t do it now, there never will be a proper Pyramid in Scotland, it will be in name only with clubs being “created” to fill the gaps.

[Burnie_man]

What is your solution?

We cannot wait around for the juniors to make up their minds. What has been made pretty clear is that the majority of junior fans do not want to be a part of the pyramid. so the "ridiculous direction" is happening because of the dinosaurs who owe allegiance to the SJFA.

We have got what we have due to negotiation, nobody got what they would have liked at the beginning of the negotiation process. The SPFL clubs conceded some points just as the non league clubs (the SJFA were part of the negotiations). The juniors seem to be unwilling to accept the package that has been agreed by all the interested parties.

We should be leaving the juniors behind and work with what we have got. I would go further and withdraw their entries from the Scottish Cup. This is something that the SFA can do but it is not up to them to tell clubs which association they should belong to. There would be an outcry if the SFA told the junior clubs what to do. The juniors should be left themselves to decide their own fates.

See above. Someone needs to admit that its all gone a bit wrong. That woud be a great starting point.

Leaving the Juniors behind is not a solution.

[LongTimeLurker]

I'm quite certain that Duns FC have NOT applied.

Turns out they actually withdrew their application last time around in April 2014:

http://www.dunsfc.co.uk/club-withdraw-lowland-league-application/

Following further consideration by the clubs committee Duns Football Club took the decision to withdraw their Lowland League application prior to the results being announced on Monday evening. The decision was taken last weekend and subsequently the league were advised on Sunday 27th. Club Chairman Colin Pike said “we thought it was the right decision to be fair to both the League Committee and ourselves as we felt that we could not guarantee that we would be able to meet the required SFA licensing criteria within their permitted timescale. We will continue to work hard towards meeting the required criteria at our new ground and if possible look to reapply at a later date”

[surely not!]

Bankies, we've only been established for the best part of 2 seasons but there was a lot of talk about building the pyramid before that.

The structure isn't perfect, if perfection is your desire BUT what exactly did your team bring to the table?

It will get "revamped" in time, I'd like to see a 2 down from SPGL2 so that the HL & LL champs both go up but who knows what the future may bring.

Small acorns lad.

Grimbo

You tried convincing them that the top seven should compete in the playoffs? ;-).

[MacGafraidh]

What folks seem to not get is that we have modelled it on the English Pyramid and even that wasn't built in a day, if you have a look at the history and see why different leagues are below others you will see a pattern, the ones who joined the pyramid later joined at a lower level than they may have been if they had joined earlier.

My hope is to see the Juniors (I am not anti-Junior but pro pyramid) in the pyramid and I hope that they will join the party at some point, at what level that is remains to be seen. I find it hilarious that a group of clubs that have set their stall to not be part of it would attempt to dictate at what level they would come in if they decide to join in.

Here is the deal, if they wish to choose their own wee world where they play the same teams and have the same wee rivalries until Armageddon happens then so be it, they are relevant in their own wee sphere of influence, but by the same token they cannot whine that they don’t get the same level of subsidy at “member clubs” as you really can’t have it both ways.

I doubt anyone at the SFA really cares if any Junior team crosses over, they have a pyramid league in place so they have gone through the motions. The Juniors had the same choice that the HFL had, join the party or the SFA would make their own league from the folks who would applied.

[Bankies Alive]

What folks seem to not get is that we have modelled it on the English Pyramid and even that wasn't built in a day, if you have a look at the history and see why different leagues are below others you will see a pattern, the ones who joined the pyramid later joined at a lower level than they may have been if they had joined earlier.

My hope is to see the Juniors (I am not anti-Junior but pro pyramid) in the pyramid and I hope that they will join the party at some point, at what level that is remains to be seen. I find it hilarious that a group of clubs that have set their stall to not be part of it would attempt to dictate at what level they would come in if they decide to join in.

Here is the deal, if they wish to choose their own wee world where they play the same teams and have the same wee rivalries until Armageddon happens then so be it, they are relevant in their own wee sphere of influence, but by the same token they cannot whine that they don’t get the same level of subsidy at “member clubs” as you really can’t have it both ways.

I doubt anyone at the SFA really cares if any Junior team crosses over, they have a pyramid league in place so they have gone through the motions. The Juniors had the same choice that the HFL had, join the party or the SFA would make their own league from the folks who would applied.

What level do you think the top Junior Clubs should be at?

[LongTimeLurker]

If Duns didn't apply and the following did and there are five applicants in total (many dubious assumptions I know):

Civil Service Strollers

AMsoccer

Cumbernauld Colts

Edusport

we are back to the scenario where a junior club may have unexpectedly put in an application. I'll throw in Rossvale as the only conceivable possibility on that if Petershill Park is suitable, which it presumably is if the Glasgow City womens team can play UEFA level Champions League games there. Beyond that are there any more ambitious "Jube Jube" clubs that might have decided to throw their hat in the ring?

[MacGafraidh]

What level do you think the top Junior Clubs should be at?

That is something the Junior clubs will decide themselves mate, I enjoyed Junior games and when I went I went to Clydebank games, I went with Clydebank up to Tayport and have seen games at the Hibby and Holm Park and on the road at Rutherglen. So I have no axe to grind with the junior game and to a man every Bankies fan I met were decent guys and pasionate followers of their team.

If they choose to come in (big if) and entry level is level 7 or 8 then thats their choice, however they have the same opportunity as others do to come in and be better candidates (on paper) than the teams that are applied.

Truth be told mate, I would much rather had Medda, Clydebank, Auchenleck, Blackburn, Rose, Tayport, Camelon or any the top Junior teams in the LFL rather than BSC or the Uni sides, but they didn't apply.

[Burnie_man]

Here is the deal, if they wish to choose their own wee world where they play the same teams and have the same wee rivalries until Armageddon happens then so be it, they are relevant in their own wee sphere of influence, but by the same token they cannot whine that they don’t get the same level of subsidy at “member clubs” as you really can’t have it both ways.

I doubt anyone at the SFA really cares if any Junior team crosses over, they have a pyramid league in place so they have gone through the motions. The Juniors had the same choice that the HFL had, join the party or the SFA would make their own league from the folks who would applied.

You're not anti-Junior but..............

The Juniors "own wee world" is a bigger world than all senior clubs in Scotland put together, so it's not that wee.......

The Juniors did not have the same choice to make as the HFL, that is patently ridiculous. The HFL have 16 members many of whom are already full SFA members, the SJFA have 160+ clubs all over Scotland of which hardly any are SFA members.

[Burnie_man]

That is something the Junior clubs will decide themselves mate, I enjoyed Junior games and when I went I went to Clydebank games, I went with Clydebank up to Tayport and have seen games at the Hibby and Holm Park and on the road at Rutherglen. So I have no axe to grind with the junior game and to a man every Bankies fan I met were decent guys and pasionate followers of their team.

If they choose to come in (big if) and entry level is level 7 or 8 then thats their choice, however they have the same opportunity as others do to come in and be better candidates (on paper) than the teams that are applied.

Truth be told mate, I would much rather had Medda, Clydebank, Auchenleck, Blackburn, Rose, Tayport, Camelon or any the top Junior teams in the LFL rather than BSC or the Uni sides, but they didn't apply.

If, and it is a very big unlikely if, the SJFA warmed towards the Pyramid, it would seek status at the top level alongside LL, not feeding into it.

[MacGafraidh]

If, and it is a very big unlikely if, the SJFA warmed towards the Pyramid, it would seek status at the top level alongside LL, not feeding into it.

Here is the deal and this is the major bone of contention, you can only go with the clubs that apply. I am thinking that the juniors are happy being a regional set up with smaller regional set ups feeding into a league that is split based on an east/west split (throwing out the north juniors for a minute).

That is their right and if this is what they want then that is great, but really has no connection with the SFA or the professional game (apart from office space being close and SFA supplying referees and server space on their web portal)

The SFA are right in setting the rules within their juristiction, I hope that Junior clubs get their licensing sorted prior to 2016 if they choose to do so because after that they may face the decision whether to license and have to support the LFL (and eventually the entry to the SFA cup will be based on this too, hasn't happened yet but we can all see this is where that is going)

I am all for Junior football, what I am not for is the dinosaur attitude (which I don't see in you burnie) towards keeping the commitees alive.

You're not anti-Junior but..............

The Juniors "own wee world" is a bigger world than all senior clubs in Scotland put together, so it's not that wee.......

The Juniors did not have the same choice to make as the HFL, that is patently ridiculous. The HFL have 16 members many of whom are already full SFA members, the SJFA have 160+ clubs all over Scotland of which hardly any are SFA members.

You missed what I meant there so please allow me to explain. When I talk of "own wee world" I meant in terms of relevance to the bigger picture, the pyramid train has left the station and in order to get on the "level 5 train" there are few stops to get on, beyond that there is no absolutes on where tehy would enter.

The HFL were given the choice to accept level 5 on the pyramid or the SFA would have made a new Highland league with clubs having to apply for their status, they majority voted for it, including ironically Brora.