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Again speaking as an outsider, this would have been the ideal time for Clydebank to apply, groundsharing is common, fan ownership is common and they have went from new boys in Div 2 of the CDL to almost the top of the tree in 12 years in the Juniors, really not much more to prove in that level. I would have thought a league that offers the chance of trying against the big boys after a promotion would be the next logical step.

Again once the LL is full, they can always try their luck in future years to get into the EOS or SOS or whatever the entry league will be if and when they decide to apply.

I'm not sure Clydebank have "proved" anything in the Juniors as yet, and what will never happen is a Junior club joining the EoS or the SoS in order to get into a "Pyramid"

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And here comes the juniors, attacking clubs for applying and the league if they are accepted, but not putting themselves in the mix.

The league should only ask 2 questions initially, will the club play from within the LL region? And will they be licensed? If more clubs meet those criteria than there are spaces then playing standards can be looked at. At no stage should the number of fans or some bizarre concept of proper football be considered.

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Bankies Alive...honestly mate, just go back to the junior forum.....

With so much self interest in this country of ours , wholehearted support for anything new was always gonna meet with your type of attitude.

We in the Lowland League will strive to work within the framework provided to us and try and improve things.

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Parsforlife....I just want to know what he meant by "not a proper team"...

I mean some of these clubs he is talking about do more for football in this country than many junior or senior clubs. They are built with a solid community foundation, where the members run their club. Much more of a sustainable model than some of the relics that are masquerading as "proper teams".

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And here comes the juniors, attacking clubs for applying and the league if they are accepted, but not putting themselves in the mix.

The league should only ask 2 questions initially, will the club play from within the LL region? And will they be licensed? If more clubs meet those criteria than there are spaces then playing standards can be looked at. At no stage should the number of fans or some bizarre concept of proper football be considered.

It's an open forum where views can be expressed, and if you think any of these prospective new clubs do anything other than damage the credibility of the LL and the Pyramid in general then you need to open your eyes.

Junior fitba is run by dinosaurs, you and I both know that, and therefore you should know why the LL (sadly in my opinion) holds very little attraction to Junior clubs.

As for the fan base aspect, you're kidding yourself if applications (not genuine merit based promotion) should not take consideration of fan base. What good is a league if nobody watches it? Edinburgh CIty are LL Champions and all credit to them, but haven't they attracted less than 50 to some league games?

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Parsforlife....I just want to know what he meant by "not a proper team"...

I mean some of these clubs he is talking about do more for football in this country than many junior or senior clubs. They are built with a solid community foundation, where the members run their club. Much more of a sustainable model than some of the relics that are masquerading as "proper teams".

I guess what he means is....

Football without fans is nothing © Jock Stein

There is no doubt that these clubs (and my own) do commendable work in the community and run many teams, developing players and coaches. Sadly that does not necessarily mean that an adult team will attract paying fans and a support base, particularly if they do not even have a ground to call their own.

In that respect, questioning their inclusion in the 5th tier of Scottish football is not that surprising.

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Parsforlife....I just want to know what he meant by "not a proper team"...

I mean some of these clubs he is talking about do more for football in this country than many junior or senior clubs. They are built with a solid community foundation, where the members run their club. Much more of a sustainable model than some of the relics that are masquerading as "proper teams".

A club that doesn't have an adult level team playing at any credible level prior to entry is not a proper team, by the standards of just about any credible senior football setup. The likes of Broomhill, no matter what they may go on to achieve in a LL setup, were not credible entrants at the time; nor are these similar community-based entities with little background operating senior male football sides.

I'd hardly consider that an extreme point of view or onerous qualification, but here we are.

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In order to run the race you have to cross the start line guys...

Whether they are credible applicants or not, they are applicants. I agree with much of what burnie says in the fact that the committee driven, lets not release fixtures any further than a month out, dinosaur driven rank and file junior cartel has chosen to not apply en masse to the LL, (Or any of the feeder leagues to the SPFL for that matter) which shows that they do not wish to do so and they are happy doing their thing independent of the professional set up. Rightly or wrongly, that is their choice, much the same as the North Juniors and NCFL would be much better placed merging to make a feeder for the HFL but common sense doesnt always work in football terms.

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It's an open forum where views can be expressed, and if you think any of these prospective new clubs do anything other than damage the credibility of the LL and the Pyramid in general then you need to open your eyes.

Junior fitba is run by dinosaurs, you and I both know that, and therefore you should know why the LL (sadly in my opinion) holds very little attraction to Junior clubs.

As for the fan base aspect, you're kidding yourself if applications (not genuine merit based promotion) should not take consideration of fan base. What good is a league if nobody watches it? Edinburgh CIty are LL Champions and all credit to them, but haven't they attracted less than 50 to some league games?

Open forum yes, but don't expect your views not to be questioned.

I think it would be better to see the juniors(and in terms of the LL the elite juniors) join the pyramid, but it's a pyramid for all and all are welcome to join, at the moment the LL is an entry point for those clubs that want to join, with an entry licence being a requirement to enter at this level, if clubs can attain that then nothing else should matter, as long as the number of applicants does not exceed the number of places.

I think fan base is of no importance to anyone barring the clubs themselves. That goes to all levels, the fundamental importance of the game is the players on the pitch, I know fans are crucial to most clubs to sustain their sides, but if other clubs find other ways then go ahead, it's about the sport over who is watching.

That said its crucial we have some form of regulations over what goes on off the park, licensing whilst not ideal provides that. It's important that clubs provide the correct facilities for all stakeholders, but how that is funded is irrelevant to me.

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Open forum yes, but don't expect your views not to be questioned.

I think it would be better to see the juniors(and in terms of the LL the elite juniors) join the pyramid, but it's a pyramid for all and all are welcome to join, at the moment the LL is an entry point for those clubs that want to join, with an entry licence being a requirement to enter at this level, if clubs can attain that then nothing else should matter, as long as the number of applicants does not exceed the number of places.

I think fan base is of no importance to anyone barring the clubs themselves. That goes to all levels, the fundamental importance of the game is the players on the pitch, I know fans are crucial to most clubs to sustain their sides, but if other clubs find other ways then go ahead, it's about the sport over who is watching.

That said its crucial we have some form of regulations over what goes on off the park, licensing whilst not ideal provides that. It's important that clubs provide the correct facilities for all stakeholders, but how that is funded is irrelevant to me.

So football should not be about fans? if so, what's the point of organised professional football?

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The top juniors have made it perfectly clear that they do not want join the Lowland League but continually snipe away. All they want is to be a part of a shambolic organisation that they see themselves as the true bastions of grass roots football in the country. This is far from the truth as teams with true community links are applying to join our league.

The juniors seem to think that the pyramid will not work because they are not part of it. They are delusional as the League is growing from strength to strength with increased media coverage and sponsorship.

As far as fans are concerned, yes there are a handful of junior clubs with average gates of three figures but they are a tiny minority of all junior clubs. East Kilbride, an amateur club with no fans a couple of years ago, probably attract a higher average crowd than most Super league clubs. They are a shining example of what other 'fake' football clubs can achieve with strong community links.

The juniors can snipe all they want as we don't care. They will soon realise that they will be left behind and eventually join us through a more torturous route as the available places fill up with more community based clubs.

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I like what parsforlife said there

"at the moment the LL is an entry point for those clubs that want to join"

that might not always be the case, If the LFL meets the required number of licensed applicants then new and interested clubs may have to apply to the feeder leagues for the LFL. Which at this point would be EOS and SOS (and this is assuming that a WOS league is not started)

Really I expect the chasm to get larger, the juniors to do their thing, the professional leagues to do theirs and perhaps the odd defection here or there but it to remain seperate. Should the juniors choose to apply 10/20 years down the line, they will apply at whatever the entry point will be.

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VikingTON....everyone has to start somewhere....the pyramid system had to be created cos none existed....so my friend it's a new beginning and we ALL had a chance to join.

Let's be honest there were/are sides who have been taking from the Scottish professional game for decades and putting zilch back....in terms of community based set ups these so called improper teams have an ability, given time, to outperform the established clubs in terms of attracting a fan base.

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I think there are some junior teams that if they made the move into the Lowland League it would be the making of them....I really believe there are a few clubs out there that would really rise through the ranks of Scottish football.....it's just my opinion, but I do not believe that it would harm their fan base, I really think it could galvanise the communities they are in and give the club an even greater exposure than they receive at the moment.....

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