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Granny Danger

2014 The Year of Independence

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I read a comment the other day, I'm not sure where, that used that tired, old cliche about the SNP 'losing the battle but winning the war'. Tired and old it may be but it succinctly sums up the impact of the referendum in Scotland.

Despite losing the vote the independence movement and its main party political protagonist is at an all time high. Former Labour voters have turned their back on the party in incredible numbers and now on the most optimistic (or stupidest) Unionists think the status quo will endure.

The absolute WORST the SNP can expect in next year's General Election is a very good result; at BEST it may be spectacular. Labour have gambled on a non-MSP, Westminster-backed hack as their saviour in Scotland and there is no indication that this will pay off.

Polls suggest that people are not being fooled by the Smith Commission and that Scots want additional powers, such as Corporation Tax rates, set by the Scottish Parliament.

The clock is ticking folks; it's just a matter of time. History will show that 2014 really was the year of Independence.

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I read a comment the other day, I'm not sure where, that used that tired, old cliche about the SNP 'losing the battle but winning the war'. Tired and old it may be but it succinctly sums up the impact of the referendum in Scotland.

Despite losing the vote the independence movement and its main party political protagonist is at an all time high. Former Labour voters have turned their back on the party in incredible numbers and now on the most optimistic (or stupidest) Unionists think the status quo will endure.

The absolute WORST the SNP can expect in next year's General Election is a very good result; at BEST it may be spectacular. Labour have gambled on a non-MSP, Westminster-backed hack as their saviour in Scotland and there is no indication that this will pay off.

Polls suggest that people are not being fooled by the Smith Commission and that Scots want additional powers, such as Corporation Tax rates, set by the Scottish Parliament.

The clock is ticking folks; it's just a matter of time. History will show that 2014 really was the year of Independence.

I'd say it was a year when the people of Scotland voted decisively against independence and a massive crash in the price of oil demonstrated beyond all debate that the SNP's economic policy is worse than back-of-a-fag-packet nonsense - just utter who-cares, worry-later gibberish and fvck the consequences.

Still, who knows? There are hundreds of thousands of people in the country who are loudly and unashamedly declaring that they couldn't give a damn about how the bins are going to get emptied and how the hospitals are going to stay open, because the most important thing is getting it right up Labour.

So you're probably correct that this is the decisive moment for the future of the independence cause. Strike while the people are clueless, angry and utterly disinterested in the reality of governance, and anything might happen.

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The oil price is the only thing that the unionists have left to cling to. Everything else has been shown up to be a pack of lies. Banks planning to move their headquarters and cut jobs anyway. The likes of the Weir group who spoke out against independence, cutting jobs anyway. The UK admitting that we are indeed skint and will need to hammer even more poor folk to scrape by. Labour admitting that there is indeed a threat to the NHS. The list goes on. What will the unionists cling to when the oil price goes back up by March 2016 ?

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You're supporting a Government that only wants to keep hospitals open to those who can afford it. A Government that wants to whore our country out to corporate greed. Good luck with that. :thumbsdown

Anybody with any level of sense can see why the price of oil has "crashed". They can also see why the "crash" can't last for very long. If Labour had done the sensible thing for Scotland back in the 70's, the current oil situation would be laughable to us.

Exactly. Norway won't be affected in the slightest. They make more money from their fund than they do from oil.

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I'd say it was a year when the people of Scotland voted decisively against independence and a massive crash in the price of oil demonstrated beyond all debate that the SNP's economic policy is worse than back-of-a-fag-packet nonsense - just utter who-cares, worry-later gibberish and fvck the consequences.

Still, who knows? There are hundreds of thousands of people in the country who are loudly and unashamedly declaring that they couldn't give a damn about how the bins are going to get emptied and how the hospitals are going to stay open, because the most important thing is getting it right up Labour.

So you're probably correct that this is the decisive moment for the future of the independence cause. Strike while the people are clueless, angry and utterly disinterested in the reality of governance, and anything might happen.

Idiot found

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I'd say it was a year when the people of Scotland voted decisively against independence and a massive crash in the price of oil demonstrated beyond all debate that the SNP's economic policy is worse than back-of-a-fag-packet nonsense - just utter who-cares, worry-later gibberish and fvck the consequences.

Enough discussion. Let Westminster sort out stuff. They're clever and Lords.

Still, who knows? There are hundreds of thousands of people in the country who are loudly and unashamedly declaring that they couldn't give a damn about how the bins are going to get emptied and how the hospitals are going to stay open, because the most important thing is getting it right up Labour.

I vote for Labour. It's something to do with bins. You don't understand.

So you're probably correct that this is the decisive moment for the future of the independence cause. Strike while the people are clueless, angry and utterly disinterested in the reality of governance, and anything might happen.

I vote for Labour. I'll continue to do so. I hate that Salmond.

Edited by HaikuHibee

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The oil price is the only thing that the unionists have left to cling to.

Let's just say that this is true, for the sake of argument. I'd say that the reduction of the price of oil to half of what the SNP budgeted for is quite a big thing, when it's the cornerstone of the government's economic policy.

The point here isn't that Scotland could or couldn't do this or that, had we gone for independence. It's that the oil price crash demonstrates yet again that the SNP absolutely does not give a single fvck whether the people of this country live in plenty or penury, because they are prepared to take independence at any price, no matter the cost to all of us.

The fact that so many of the SNP's supporters think that the utter destruction of the party's economic platform is a trifling matter indicates that they think no differently. Plainly, many of them are quite prepared to drop all of us in the shit for the sake of their fantastical politics and their twatty little catfight with the Labour Party.

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It's always hilarious hearing supporters of a Union which is £1.4 trillion in debt and recently allowed the nation's finances to be treated like chips in a 4 a.m game of drunken roulette, lecturing others on prudent economic planning.

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When do i get my £1,400 bribe?

You should move over here, we get a lot more than that.

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When do i get my £1,400 bribe?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/12-things-that-1400-uk-dividend-could-buy

12 things that £1,400 UK Dividend could buy

Share a meal of fish and chips with your family every day for around 10 weeks, with a couple of portions of mushy peas thrown in.

Average cost of fish and chips in UK: £4.74 per portion, based on family of 4 sharing meal.

It's always hilarious hearing supporters of a Union which is £1.4 trillion in debt and recently allowed the nation's finances to be treated like chips in a 4 a.m game of drunken roulette, lecturing others on prudent economic planning.

:lol:

Labour are struggling. They might pay that for a vote. Not sure it's worth it.

Edited by HaikuHibee

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£1,400.00 would buy one fish supper a day for 10 months, not 10 weeks.

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Let's just say that this is true, for the sake of argument. I'd say that the reduction of the price of oil to half of what the SNP budgeted for is quite a big thing, when it's the cornerstone of the government's economic policy.

The point here isn't that Scotland could or couldn't do this or that, had we gone for independence. It's that the oil price crash demonstrates yet again that the SNP absolutely does not give a single fvck whether the people of this country live in plenty or penury, because they are prepared to take independence at any price, no matter the cost to all of us.

The fact that so many of the SNP's supporters think that the utter destruction of the party's economic platform is a trifling matter indicates that they think no differently. Plainly, many of them are quite prepared to drop all of us in the shit for the sake of their fantastical politics and their twatty little catfight with the Labour Party.

The oil price collapsing, which no one predicted, not even UK industry bodies, means the SNP don't give a f**k ? :lol:

We wouldn't be independent right now mate. The UK would be taking the hit on the oil price right now, not Scotland. I hope you show your face on this particular thread in March 2016 when normal service has resumed.

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I read a comment the other day, I'm not sure where, that used that tired, old cliche about the SNP 'losing the battle but winning the war'. Tired and old it may be but it succinctly sums up the impact of the referendum in Scotland.

Despite losing the vote the independence movement and its main party political protagonist is at an all time high. Former Labour voters have turned their back on the party in incredible numbers and now on the most optimistic (or stupidest) Unionists think the status quo will endure.

The absolute WORST the SNP can expect in next year's General Election is a very good result; at BEST it may be spectacular. Labour have gambled on a non-MSP, Westminster-backed hack as their saviour in Scotland and there is no indication that this will pay off.

Polls suggest that people are not being fooled by the Smith Commission and that Scots want additional powers, such as Corporation Tax rates, set by the Scottish Parliament.

The clock is ticking folks; it's just a matter of time. History will show that 2014 really was the year of Independence.

Spot on.

And you just have to look at the political landscape right now. Labour hegemony in Scotland nearly at an end? Opinion polling suggesting just that!

If Labour do really badly in May you have to ask when will they ever get back to a position of power in Scotland?

The Westminster election should be a good test for everyone. Things will be a lot clearer about where we are politically in Scotland

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Yeah, that's all very good. Except the SNPs oil value prediction is for 2016 onwards, not 2014. They predicted that the value would be somewhere around 110$/barrel. Something that anybody with any level of credibility has yet to challenge them on.

You're taking the value of oil as it currently stands and very naively assume that it will just stay that way. Despite oil historically increasing substantially in value in the long run regardless of occasional drops caused by political farces.

But you already know the value of oil will be higher then ever by 2016. But like a typical unionist, you just don't care. You're hell bent on keeping the UK together, even if it's not in the best interests of your own country.

Yes, maybe the price of oil will be at record levels come 2016. Who knows? Nobody, because the price of oil can be highly volatile at times. Which is kind of the point being made.

If politicians have radical plans for change, it's entirely reasonable for folk to ask how they intend to continue paying for roads and hospitals and pensions and so on. When people asked the SNP this question during the referendum, what they got repeatedly was dismissive claims that the oil would pay, followed by glib pronouncements about people "running Scotland down" and snotty remarks about how, like, the UK is in lots of debt, innit.

Well, if we want an example of how an economy that's based on products that have volatile prices fares in times of hardship, Russia looks like a good one right now. There are plenty of differences of course, but more than enough similarities for concern.

It speaks volumes that the best, most sensible responses to that fact appear to be - acknowledging that oil prices are volatile but that they may not be in a year's time, or just the usual empty-headed patrio-trolling bollocks.

It looks quite a lot like neither the SNP nor their followers give even the slenderest of shits whether the nation will be helped or harmed by their plans, and a lot more like they're willing to gamble everyone's livelihoods upon a deliberately vague promise of jam tomorrow, for daft misty-eyed, anthem-singing flag-wavey reasons. And that's probably because they are.

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Depends where you go. If you're looking for a quality fish supper, that could set you back £6-7. Taking you down to around 7 months. 6 months if you're paying for the broon sauce and the plastic forks.

£4.74 was the price quoted, hence the 10 months.

I could have equally said at £20.00 a fish supper the £1,400.00 would last only 10 weeks, which is where the original statement came from, imo, 4 fish suppers a day instead of 1 between 4.

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I read a comment the other day, I'm not sure where, that used that tired, old cliche about the SNP 'losing the battle but winning the war'. Tired and old it may be but it succinctly sums up the impact of the referendum in Scotland.

Despite losing the vote the independence movement and its main party political protagonist is at an all time high. Former Labour voters have turned their back on the party in incredible numbers and now on the most optimistic (or stupidest) Unionists think the status quo will endure.

The absolute WORST the SNP can expect in next year's General Election is a very good result; at BEST it may be spectacular. Labour have gambled on a non-MSP, Westminster-backed hack as their saviour in Scotland and there is no indication that this will pay off.

Polls suggest that people are not being fooled by the Smith Commission and that Scots want additional powers, such as Corporation Tax rates, set by the Scottish Parliament.

The clock is ticking folks; it's just a matter of time. History will show that 2014 really was the year of Independence.

No, I really don't think it will. Still a few days to go so I could be wrong............but I doubt it :) .

Gerry Hassan summarised the position well:

Making the mistake that Yes speaks for Scotland misunderstands politics on numerous levels: the nature of democratic legitimacy, the contours of the No victory, and any notion of future political and constitutional change. Pro-independence opinion has to grasp that it does not speak for majority Scotland; it must reach out, listen and empathise, and not engage in the politics of smugness and self-righteousness.

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No, I really don't think it will. Still a few days to go so I could be wrong............but I doubt it :) .

Gerry Hassan summarised the position well:

Making the mistake that Yes speaks for Scotland misunderstands politics on numerous levels: the nature of democratic legitimacy, the contours of the No victory, and any notion of future political and constitutional change. Pro-independence opinion has to grasp that it does not speak for majority Scotland; it must reach out, listen and empathise, and not engage in the politics of smugness and self-righteousness.

Hmmmm...

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It's always hilarious hearing supporters of a Union which is £1.4 trillion in debt and recently allowed the nation's finances to be treated like chips in a 4 a.m game of drunken roulette, lecturing others on prudent economic planning.

Yip and most of it can be laid at Labours door. Brown sold our gold and fecked our pensions. Etc etc. Can they seriously be asking us to trust Miliband and Balls?

At least you know what you get with the Tories. They will always look after their own. Labour are a party that has, like our gold sold itself short.

Scotland was lied to about the amount of oil we had (Labour) and it has seen that wealth squandered by successive Governments , on Unemployment and Trident .

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Gerry Hassan summarised the position well:

Making the mistake that Yes speaks for Scotland misunderstands politics on numerous levels: the nature of democratic legitimacy, the contours of the No victory, and any notion of future political and constitutional change. Pro-independence opinion has to grasp that it does not speak for majority Scotland; it must reach out, listen and empathise, and not engage in the politics of smugness and self-righteousness.

I thought no had won. That Britain will change for good. They will show us sense...

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/regardless-of-whether-its-a-yes-or-a-no-vote-the-answer-must-be-radical-change/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10939226/Radical-Westminster-reform-needed-if-Scottish-independence-rejected-Lord-McConnell-suggests.html

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/14/scotland-has-shown-change-whole-country

Edited by HaikuHibee

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