AyrExile Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 6 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: As if that bunch of c***s was a local audience. Can’t believe the reaction this particular show is getting just because the hypocrisy of the SNP over brexit was highlighted to a national audience. Whilst I agree the audience was skewed the snp representative and supporters were piss poor. Other weeks they will give as good as they get. Billy Mitchell Is gettinng lots of personal abuse but not seen much being said to address some of the inconvenient truths he mentioned 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrExile Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: It isn't. It's getting the reaction because the audience selection process is obviously bent. Second point is tremendously funny to me. A politician with anything about them should easily be able to handle a few roasters in an audience. Unless of course their arguments are flawed and they are not used to being challenged 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrExile Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: I am not defending the SNP and agree they need to do better. I just like the idea that they've got this guy on to do his bit to bash the SNP and instead its blown up in their faces. Yeah you’ve got a point about them getting stick. The whole thing just seems very Celtic like. Happy enough with the referees until they lose and then it’s everyone else’s fault but their own 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Great to see the yoons defending sectarian bigots 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 1 hour ago, MixuFixit said: Was searching for the tweet he did that crystallised this thought, found it: That's up there with yon St Mirren manager saying they'll be playing in the Champs League soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 49 minutes ago, AyrExile said: Can’t believe the reaction this particular show is getting just because the hypocrisy of the SNP over brexit was highlighted to a national audience. Whilst I agree the audience was skewed the snp representative and supporters were piss poor. Other weeks they will give as good as they get. Billy Mitchell Is gettinng lots of personal abuse but not seen much being said to address some of the inconvenient truths he mentioned Hypocrisy? If you're referring to Question Time's fave Scottish fascist and his rant then you're way off. No planning for Indyref? Really? Not even a 500-page document? Inconevient truths?! FFS... He's a bigot who was blatantly planted by QT's right-wing producers to a have a go - and his BS unchallenged - at the SNP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 The far-right supporting Question Time producer is now in charge of the new Scottish channel's debate show... Devolution is power retained an aw that. https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/02/09/highlanders-and-billy-boys/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Crùbag said: The far-right supporting Question Time producer is now in charge of the new Scottish channel's debate show... Devolution is power retained an aw that. https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/02/09/highlanders-and-billy-boys/ The SNP should be up in arms over this. Why they pay so little attention to the media baffles me 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepundit Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 52 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: The white paper was shonky in places but still exceeds no deal planning even now, and it is worth remembering the UK government deliberately did no planning for independence in 2014 for political reasons. Always thought the SNP deliberately had no answers to certain questions during the indyref campaign because their behind closed doors answer wouldn't have gone down too well with Joe Public. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMDP Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, AyrExile said: Can’t believe the reaction this particular show is getting just because the hypocrisy of the SNP over brexit was highlighted to a national audience. Whilst I agree the audience was skewed the snp representative and supporters were piss poor. Other weeks they will give as good as they get. Billy Mitchell Is gettinng lots of personal abuse but not seen much being said to address some of the inconvenient truths he mentioned It's fairly easy to address - he was talking shit. The currency issue wasn't too difficult to understand, even though I disagreed with it. The UK simply can't refuse the use of the pound. Personally, I would favour a new Scottish currency. His oil point was utter nonsense as well and just cheap patter totally scripted to resonate with brain donor Brit Nats. Yeah, oil was overestimated in the white paper but and independent Scotland won't live or die economically through oil - but these binary arguments are used frequently by the Brit Nat side, simplify nuanced complex arguments into a reductive "haha, ye dinny know the name of the currency, I bet yees want to use the sturgeon or sumthin" which gets applied to so many issues surrounding politics today. You only have to look at the recent Churchill debate for that. It's interesting that none of the Brit Nats are able to refute the point the model made. Why is it that for a country the size of Scotland with the physical and human resources that it has, even a question whether it could succeed economically? Are the same questions asked of Slovenia, Latvia, Denmark, etc? Wouldn't they be better giving up their right to self-determine? I've given up on Question Time a while ago, just thought it was rubbish rather than actually biased. Turns out I was wrong. Edited February 9, 2019 by JMDP 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrExile Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 40 minutes ago, JMDP said: It's fairly easy to address - he was talking shit. The currency issue wasn't too difficult to understand, even though I disagreed with it. The UK simply can't refuse the use of the pound. Personally, I would favour a new Scottish currency. His oil point was utter nonsense as well and just cheap patter totally scripted to resonate with brain donor Brit Nats. Yeah, oil was overestimated in the white paper but and independent Scotland won't live or die economically through oil - but these binary arguments are used frequently by the Brit Nat side, simplify nuanced complex arguments into a reductive "haha, ye dinny know the name of the currency, I bet yees want to use the sturgeon or sumthin" which gets applied to so many issues surrounding politics today. You only have to look at the recent Churchill debate for that. It's interesting that none of the Brit Nats are able to refute the point the model made. Why is it that for a country the size of Scotland with the physical and human resources that it has, even a question whether it could succeed economically? Are the same questions asked of Slovenia, Latvia, Denmark, etc? Wouldn't they be better giving up their right to self-determine? I've given up on Question Time a while ago, just thought it was rubbish rather than actually biased. Turns out I was wrong. Some of his points were valid in that the SNP are slating Brexit despite quite a lot of it being similar to the independence campaign. Of course Scotland could stand on its own two feet economically and it’s whether it would prosper or not is the big question. I wonder if all the countries you quoted would also be keen to walk away from the sixth biggest economy in the world on a whim. If the economic facts backed up the emotional ones independence would be an open goal and therein lies the big problem 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, AyrExile said: I wonder if all the countries you quoted would also be keen to walk away from the sixth biggest economy in the world on a whim. They might if it was to rejoin the world's biggest trading block. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, AyrExile said: keen to walk away from the sixth biggest economy in the world on a whim. We're walking away from the second on a whim. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrExile Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: They might if it was to rejoin the world's biggest trading block. Would be a tough decision ditching your biggest trading partner and opting for a new currency though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrExile Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 37 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: All Scottish trade with the EU & Elsewhere is about 66% as much as we trade with rUK. That's a serious point that needs a serious answer. It's a long term project to rebalance (one I favour) but it's not one that works for politicians in ~5 year election cycles. Your choices are: Remain hitched to the isolationist policy of England that we know is going to crater the economy in every sector by at least 8%, 4 times worse than the 2008 financial crisis, and hope for the best. Go independent and quickly issue government bonds to cover the very high expense of rebalancing your trade network away from an isolationist England. I happen to view our diversified economy and abundance of natural resources that are geographically concentrated in our neck of the woods as slam dunk collateral for option 2 but it'll still take 20 years to show results and that's a nigh on impossible sell. You make a great point that everybody involved in these processes is paid or measured to bring near term results making long term decisions for the greater good near impossible. For your choices how much will the economy tank in option 2 compared to option 1 when going it alone? Why can option 2 rebalance it’s economy but not option 1? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 53 minutes ago, AyrExile said: ditching 10 minutes ago, AyrExile said: going it alone Would you say that you are more emotive or subjective? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 4 hours ago, JMDP said: It's fairly easy to address - he was talking shit. The currency issue wasn't too difficult to understand, even though I disagreed with it. The UK simply can't refuse the use of the pound. Personally, I would favour a new Scottish currency. His oil point was utter nonsense as well and just cheap patter totally scripted to resonate with brain donor Brit Nats. Yeah, oil was overestimated in the white paper but and independent Scotland won't live or die economically through oil - but these binary arguments are used frequently by the Brit Nat side, simplify nuanced complex arguments into a reductive "haha, ye dinny know the name of the currency, I bet yees want to use the sturgeon or sumthin" which gets applied to so many issues surrounding politics today. You only have to look at the recent Churchill debate for that. It's interesting that none of the Brit Nats are able to refute the point the model made. Why is it that for a country the size of Scotland with the physical and human resources that it has, even a question whether it could succeed economically? Are the same questions asked of Slovenia, Latvia, Denmark, etc? Wouldn't they be better giving up their right to self-determine? I've given up on Question Time a while ago, just thought it was rubbish rather than actually biased. Turns out I was wrong. What always amazes me with the oil stick that is used to beat up the SNP is that everyone overestimated the future price of oil, and the SNP's $110 wasn't even close to being the highest estimate. However that doesn't suit the unionist agenda 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 4 hours ago, AyrExile said: Some of his points were valid in that the SNP are slating Brexit despite quite a lot of it being similar to the independence campaign. Of course Scotland could stand on its own two feet economically and it’s whether it would prosper or not is the big question. I wonder if all the countries you quoted would also be keen to walk away from the sixth biggest economy in the world on a whim. If the economic facts backed up the emotional ones independence would be an open goal and therein lies the big problem Size of economy is one thing. Managing it for the good of all is another. Though it's arguable that 'UK' would be much poorer without our oil, gas, whisky and renewables. Wealth that would belong to our small nation - similar to Norway. This isn't just my view. I've spoken to many in Europe who think we're mad to pass up this opportunity and that was even before Brexitshambles. Even our 'allies' in the US see this: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieThomas Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Big problem with the "independence might be worse than the status quo" bit is that at current progress the status quo is soon going to be living in a wooden shack and shitting out the window. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrExile Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 55 minutes ago, Crùbag said: Size of economy is one thing. Managing it for the good of all is another. Though it's arguable that 'UK' would be much poorer without our oil, gas, whisky and renewables. Wealth that would belong to our small nation - similar to Norway. This isn't just my view. I've spoken to many in Europe who think we're mad to pass up this opportunity and that was even before Brexitshambles. Even our 'allies' in the US see this: Yeah it would appear that lots of people who dont live here seem happy for us to go it alone. Would take their opinion a lot more seriously if they were actually willing to move here and live with the gamble 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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