Tommy Nooka Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Racist. Hey, I am deeply offended, I don't care what colour of skin the unarmed dead person has. Tell me where you live so I can 'let off some steam' by relieving your local shops of their Buckie and Space Raiders.......and Basmati rice of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Did everyone see that list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States have a little click. Number of murders and culpable homicides in Scotland last year = 61. Number of police killings in the US in 2011 = 160. Fucking hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Don't worry! At least these black civilians were armed: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/ohio-wal-mart-where-cops-shot-black-man-pulls-pellet-n215156 http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/24/cleveland-shot-boy/19471925/ Main Street, U.S.A is safer now these hoodlums aren't running about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 How do all these protestors know that the cop wasnt right to shoot the guy? Surely only the people on the scene would know what actually happened so if the jurys came out in favour of the cop how do people know that its not the correct decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 How do all these protestors know that the cop wasnt right to shoot the guy? Surely only the people on the scene would know what actually happened so if the jurys came out in favour of the cop how do people know that its not the correct decision? In what context would it be right to murder an unarmed guy who is standing some distance from where you are behind the safety of your gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 How do all these protestors know that the cop wasnt right to shoot the guy? Surely only the people on the scene would know what actually happened so if the jurys came out in favour of the cop how do people know that its not the correct decision? There are contradictory eyewitness reports from those on the scene. That means "reasonable doubt" to those involved in the grand jury, and Wilson (or whatever his name is) doesn't get indicted, meaning he won't face a trial in court. Your point about "surely only the people on the scene' falls down when you realise that there several eyewitnesses all offered different explanations (from slightly different to wildly different) and even the coroner reports disagree with each other (although, again, there are some similarities). However given the history of institutional and systematic racism from police departments around the USA, there's going to be scepticism. McCulloch - the prosecutor - lost his dad (a police officer IIRC) when he was shot by a black male. Some people are, obviously, questioning his impartiality in a case like this. On the other hand, it's not just a reaction to this case; it's a reaction to the numerous cases similar to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 In what context would it be right to murder an unarmed guy who is standing some distance from where you are behind the safety of your gun? I didn't know he was unarmed, the statement I read said that he was pushed against a car and the victim had his hand ready to draw out his gun. As Yoda has said though there were lots of various different statements made so just thought that it was pretty extreme rioting when it seems nobody was really to sure what had went on. I am not aware of the other cases of this happening so can't comment on whether I think the rioting is right or wrong, do other people on here think the people rioting are right to? Sad state of affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 This wee 12 year old guy was clearly asking for it: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cleveland-police-shooting-boy-with-fake-gun-dies-after-being-shot-by-ohio-officer-9878700.html The yank polis just love to shoot first then ask questions later. Do the c***s not get trained in leg shots if they feel they really must pull the trigger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 This wee 12 year old guy was clearly asking for it: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cleveland-police-shooting-boy-with-fake-gun-dies-after-being-shot-by-ohio-officer-9878700.html The yank polis just love to shoot first then ask questions later. Do the c***s not get trained in leg shots if they feel they really must pull the trigger? aye but they only use them on white guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Nooka Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 There are contradictory eyewitness reports from those on the scene. That means "reasonable doubt" to those involved in the grand jury, and Wilson (or whatever his name is) doesn't get indicted, meaning he won't face a trial in court. Your point about "surely only the people on the scene' falls down when you realise that there several eyewitnesses all offered different explanations (from slightly different to wildly different) and even the coroner reports disagree with each other (although, again, there are some similarities). However given the history of institutional and systematic racism from police departments around the USA, there's going to be scepticism. McCulloch - the prosecutor - lost his dad (a police officer IIRC) when he was shot by a black male. Some people are, obviously, questioning his impartiality in a case like this. On the other hand, it's not just a reaction to this case; it's a reaction to the numerous cases similar to this one. I'm pretty sure gangbangers have an equally 'instituitional and systematic' hatred for the police and they are not renowned for their reliable testimony. There were allegedly black witnesses who were afraid to give evidence because their accounts did not align with the lynch mobs. It's hard for us to understand this situation, none of us have carried a gun and had some bampot try and take it from you, I think I'd feel in danger of my life. (it's a bit like the OP shooting in that some people used the SA culture to make excuses for him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Nooka Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 This wee 12 year old guy was clearly asking for it: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cleveland-police-shooting-boy-with-fake-gun-dies-after-being-shot-by-ohio-officer-9878700.html The yank polis just love to shoot first then ask questions later. Do the c***s not get trained in leg shots if they feel they really must pull the trigger? As far as I aware, people with no legs can still fire a gun. In other words you've got to shoot to incapitate the threat and shooting a *suspected* gunmen in the legs still (potentially) leaves a gun in his hands. The sheer amount of gun incidents involving police in the US means these things are inevitable, people make mistakes, especially if people insist on acting like arseholes in the first place. If I was a police officer in America I certainly wouldn't be waiting for them to shoot me first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisGRAEME Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 It's hard for us to understand this situation Not that its holding you back, right enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I'm pretty sure gangbangers have an equally 'instituitional and systematic' hatred for the police and they are not renowned for their reliable testimony. There were allegedly black witnesses who were afraid to give evidence because their accounts did not align with the lynch mobs. It's hard for us to understand this situation, none of us have carried a gun and had some bampot try and take it from you, I think I'd feel in danger of my life. (it's a bit like the OP shooting in that some people used the SA culture to make excuses for him) If you can point out which eyewitnesses were "gangbangers" that'd be great. Also, there were African-American eyewitnesses who did give evidence. Brown allegedly tried to take the gun (or at least, tried to prevent himself getting shot form point blank range) but that was in a separate incident. The actual gunning down in the street occurred afterwards - and it's still disputed whether Brown was: (a) advancing towards the officer; (b) had his hands at his side or in the air; or ( c) actually threatened the police officer in a way that would legitimise shooting to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsr Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Number of murders and culpable homicides in Scotland last year = 61. Number of police killings in the US in 2011 = 160. Fucking hell. Their population is about 100 times what ours is, so that's not a like-for-like comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 How do all these protestors know that the cop wasnt right to shoot the guy? Surely only the people on the scene would know what actually happened so if the jurys came out in favour of the cop how do people know that its not the correct decision? He's white, so he's a waycist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 This wee 12 year old guy was clearly asking for it: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cleveland-police-shooting-boy-with-fake-gun-dies-after-being-shot-by-ohio-officer-9878700.html The yank polis just love to shoot first then ask questions later. Do the c***s not get trained in leg shots if they feel they really must pull the trigger? Firstly, ask questions. Guy has a gun, hi son, is that airsoft, or a real Beretta 92? Bang, bang, it's real motherf******. Also: You've never used a gun, that's plain. 1. Body mass, the torso, is a much easier shot. 2. Guy has a gun, put two shots in body mass he's unlikely to shoot back. Guy has a gun. fanny about trying to hit arms or legs and you will end up dead. That's why our firearms officers are trained to shoot at the torso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 This wee 12 year old guy was clearly asking for it: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/cleveland-police-shooting-boy-with-fake-gun-dies-after-being-shot-by-ohio-officer-9878700.html The yank polis just love to shoot first then ask questions later. Do the c***s not get trained in leg shots if they feel they really must pull the trigger? Nope. They're trained to shoot to kill, not shoot to maim a limb. If it gets to the stage where they feel it necessary to fire a gun, they're to do so with deadly force. 'Murica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Nooka Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Not that its holding you back, right enough Why would it? Just because something is difficult doesn't mean you should avoid tackling it altogether. If you can point out which eyewitnesses were "gangbangers" that'd be great. Also, there were African-American eyewitnesses who did give evidence. Brown allegedly tried to take the gun (or at least, tried to prevent himself getting shot form point blank range) but that was in a separate incident. The actual gunning down in the street occurred afterwards - and it's still disputed whether Brown was: (a) advancing towards the officer; (b) had his hands at his side or in the air; or ( c) actually threatened the police officer in a way that would legitimise shooting to kill. Perhaps him?? Of course there were African Americans that testified, what is more telling is that some didn't because they feared for their safety...and it wasn't the police they were scared of. I'm not claiming to know what happened but it is essential that there are alternative opinions out there and I highly suspect that Michael Brown was being a complete (possibly dangerous) arsehole at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venti Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Thought this was going to be a thread about Bazza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Why would it? Just because something is difficult doesn't mean you should avoid tackling it all together. Perhaps him?? Of course there were African Americans that testified, what is more telling is that some didn't because they feared for their safety...and it wasn't the police they were scared of. I'm not claiming to know what happened but it is essential that there are alternative opinions out there and I highly suspect that Michael Brown was being a complete (possibly dangerous) arsehole at the time. Unless you can find a source (and not a right-wing blog post that just assumes he is) that shows Dorian Johnson is a "gangbanger" then I'll be taking the couple of articles I've read that dismiss the idea of him being a gang member as nothing more than your bog-standard casual racism. His eyewitness testimony was unreliable but I err on the side of The Atlantic's Conor Friedersdorf and think that he isn't necessarily a liar for that. Unfortunately for your argument, some of the African Americans that testified put forward accounts that "support" Wilson. It's also worth noting that the witnesses you talk about did testify but refused to come out publicly (both the Washington Post and Slate back up this claim). You highly suspect that he was "being a complete arsehole at the time"? Didn't know that was a legitimate reason to shoot someone dead. Thnx for clearing that up m9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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