Nicola Sturgeon at The Hydro

[BerwickMad]

But i'm assuming you're one of those people that falsely views the UK as one big country, despite this being historically and lawfully incorrect.

Why do you care? Why do you care about people north of an imaginary line more than those South of it?

Very noticeable when a question is thrown your way that you struggle with, you fail to answer and try and turn it on those as the question, for example this britnat stuff.

[Mr Bairn]

I believe a government should exist to serve the citizens of it's own country as well. Which is why I believe the government of Scotland should be able to serve it's citizens to the best of it's ability without the constraints imposed by a government that resides in another country.

But i'm assuming you're one of those people that falsely views the UK as one big country, despite this being historically and lawfully incorrect.

The United Kingdom is an independent sovereign state. Scotland is a constituent country of this. We have a UK government which exists to serve the citizens of the UK, now I think it's pretty obvious that large parts of the UK government exists to serve them and their mates rather than the country as a whole, but that's an institutional problem rather than one that can simply be fixed by partitioning the country.

It's an identity based debate at the end of the day. You can split no voters into two parts, IMO. Some no voters are "Britnats" who think politically in terms of the entire UK and not just Scotland, and therefore are unlikely to vote Yes no matter what the circumstances are, and then you have the No voters that would probably quite like the idea of independence in a vacuum but don't believe it's best for Scotland right now.

[Mr Bairn]

That's a fair response. However, when the vast majority of the UK has no interest in overthrowing the current political set up at Westminster, despite the desire for this being strong in Scotland. Then I fail to see a way forward for Scotland in this political union.

That's somewhat of a sweeping statement. At the last national test of public opinion 50.2% of Scots voted for one of the "3 establishment parties" compared to 54.8% in the UK as a whole, so it's not like there's a huge difference in proportion. Personally I feel more aligned with the English way of thinking politically, despite the fact I'm born and raised Scottish and would never dream of singing GSTQ, politically the union suits me because there would be no hope of a neoliberal government in iScotland.

The SNP did well to consolidate the left-wing/independence vote in 2007 and they did even better to govern competently as a minority in the first term (Although they owe a lot of this to the Scottish Tories, who backed the SNP when the Lib Dems and Labour would have been all too happy to vote down Salmond's government). The 2011 result was due to Labour imploding and the SNP proving themselves as competent leaders, I think a lot of 2011 SNP voters would have (at least if polled in 2011) voted No, but the SNP's third great success was to motivate a hell of a lot of people that had never voted SNP before, or only did so in 2011, to vote Yes two months ago. Unfortunately for them they came up short on this occasion but they're now the natural ruling party at Holyrood and I'm not sure Labour will ever win an election in Scotland again.

South of the border UKIP are the natural protest option. It will be interesting to see whether they can, as the SNP did so successfully, manage to transform themselves from a protest vote to a mainstream option.

[BerwickMad]

Why do you care more about people on one single island more than those on all of the other islands? Should water be the factor that divides us all?

To answer the question though. I believe the people of Scotland hold different values and views to those south of the border. For example, you'll never have Scotland voting overwhelmingly in favour of a right wing conservative party. But the further south you go, the stronger the support you'll find for right wing.

I don't. I'm not a nationalist.

You do get parts of Scotland voting Conservative though. Infact, I'd expect them to increase their number of seats next year in Scotland. There are political differences in the areas across Scotland. It's just that you as a nationalist have decided to group Scotland as one. Others may have different ways of dividing people.

I would say the city 60 miles South of me in England is more left wing than the City 60 miles north of me. The difference in politics between the two cities doesn't have much to do with that imaginary line you see as all important.

[Mr Bairn]

I wouldn't really compare UKIP with the SNP. As you rightfully pointed out, UKIP are a protest vote. They are a party that haven't yet proven themselves and seem to contradict themselves on many of their own policies. It seems to be a vote out of anger more than trust.

However, I think people in Scotland vote for the SNP as there is a high trust rating for them in Scotland. Even people who don't back independence (yet) still vote for them in the Holyrood elections.

I can't see past a hung parliement next year, so it'll be interesting to see how party alliances are formed. On one hand, the SNP could form a coalition with Labour, but only after driving a hard bargain with them on issues such as Trident. On the other hand, if UKIP and the Conservatives form a coalition Government and manage to gain a majority, then no doubt it'll be on the deal of an EU referendum. It'll be interesting to see how this effects the mood in Scotland should the UK take up the option to leave.

I'm not saying that the SNP are a protest vote now, I'm saying that they were a protest vote until they actually managed to gain power, however (unlike most protest votes) they actually managed to govern with competence.

Hung parliaments are rare under FPTP. I certainly don't see another coalition being formed, I think we'll either have a majority or the leading party will just run a minority government and cut deals with other parties. The interesting thing is that you have two parties vying to be the biggest party, but then another 3 all vying to be the third party. If we do have a coalition anything it's pretty much open season Tory/UKIP, Tory/LD, Lab/Lib, Lab/SNP, Lab/Lib/SNP, think the civil servants will be preparing for a lot of possibilities, all we can really rule out is Labour/UKIP and Conservative/SNP

[strichener]

You appear to be trying to win a nothing argument about the number 5 million. It doesn't matter how large or small in number a group of people are, they can still be out of sync with the UK as a whole. You don't need to care about Manchester for example. Their people aren't a reason for you not to go for independence, but just don't pretend you're any more hard done by then them, or that the group of people you have chosen to recognise have any less of a say than you.

It's funny, half my family are Scottish. Based in Edinburgh and the Borders. I have many Scottish friends and start work in Scotland on Monday, but I don't recognise this typical Scot (politically) that people on here would have you believe. It's almost as if they're in their own little weegie bubble.

And here was me thinking that all the Yes voters weren't worried about detail. I am interested in how a post picking someone up for being incorrect can be construed to be pretending to be hard done to or that they have less of a say. Honestly baffling.

[SodjesSixteenIncher]

The pretence that Unionists are all suddently some kind of "hey, no borders man" John Lennony types fools absolutely naecunt by the way.

[Taza]

The United Kingdom is an independent sovereign state. Scotland is a constituent country of this. We have a UK government which exists to serve the citizens of the UK, now I think it's pretty obvious that large parts of the UK government exists to serve them and their mates rather than the country as a whole, but that's an institutional problem rather than one that can simply be fixed by partitioning the country.

It's an identity based debate at the end of the day. You can split no voters into two parts, IMO. Some no voters are "Britnats" who think politically in terms of the entire UK and not just Scotland, and therefore are unlikely to vote Yes no matter what the circumstances are, and then you have the No voters that would probably quite like the idea of independence in a vacuum but don't believe it's best for Scotland right now.

I have it as three parts - Selfish, Spineless & Stupid.

[Guest]

If a majority of SNP MP's were delivered from Scotland I couldn't give a toley about who was in overall charge at Westminster tbh.

I couldn't give a toley even if they didn't.

At a push I'd find a Tory/UKIP coalition pretty funny for the seethe it caused Better Together Labour twats, but the rise of the SNP and destruction of Labour in Scotland is my only interest.