Queens v Raith

[liam_barnett]

I can just picture Dumbarton pulling off a result against Hibs only for us to cock up our chance to go 4th in the late kick-off!

[RoversMad]

Yea, we're not even allowed an unchallenged opnion, regardless of how reasoned and obvious.

If you don't want your opinions challenged then I would suggest NOT posting them on a public forum.

[mojito]

Can I just apologise to the Queens fans for this thread turning into a steaming wreck five full days before a baw has even been kicked.

[Paco]

Can't believe how negative Rovers fans are. You are only 4 points behind us in third. Brighten up will you!

I seem to recall Queen of the South fans bitching and moaning their way to a play-off berth last season, in their first season back in the league. Sometimes things just aren't right despite how it may appear to an outside observer.

Can't see us getting anything with Queens recent form but we do generally do OK down there. Don't imagine there'll be any more than 50 Rovers fans. Will be nice to watch it on TV though.

Scott dropped plz. Bring back Nade so we can all have a bit more joy in our lives.

[palmy_cammy]

I seem to recall Queen of the South fans bitching and moaning their way to a play-off berth last season, in their first season back in the league. Sometimes things just aren't right despite how it may appear to an outside observer.

Can't see us getting anything with Queens recent form but we do generally do OK down there. Don't imagine there'll be any more than 50 Rovers fans. Will be nice to watch it on TV though.

Scott dropped plz. Bring back Nade so we can all have a bit more joy in our lives.

Indeed. I can certainly sympathise with a lot of the posts in this thread. Nothing worse than a "happy clapper".

Unusually I appear to be in the positive end of the spectrum as far as our fans go just now being one of the few that isn't furious about a point away to Hibs.

[Big Berk]

If you don't want your opinions challenged then I would suggest NOT posting them on a public forum.

Somewhat hypocritical, to say the least. I think its folk like you that dont like your 'everything's ok' opinions challenged, with desenters personally targeted.

[roverthemoon]

I would consider these types of programs are aimed more at people of your level - that kind of 'entertainment' is about as painful as watching Rovers. Except that with watching Rovers there's the hope that the viewing might improve.

People of my level? I don't mind a bit of Pointless now and then. Don't really see the appeal of Strictly though.

[roverthemoon]

I haven't really seen anyone saying everything is ok. Most of us agree the football we play isn't the greatest to watch but the results have, on the whole, been positive and our league position (1 point off a play off spot after 13 games) is not bad. I don't have an issue with folk saying that the football is pish or even that they think Murray should be sacked. It's the relentless negativity, pessimism and even occasionally spouting shite that's obviously untrue that gets tiring.

We'll get humped by 4 or more at Tynecastle...we didn't

We're sliding down the league...we aren't

We won't win a game after the clocks go back...we've just won one

We'll struggle to sell the lower part of the away end at Tynecastle...when it was already sold out and the away crowd turned out to be very respectable

And in this thread itself that we are going to humped by 4 goals so why bother watching.

I've said it before but if that is genuinely your view of Raith Rovers then why bother turning up to support them? I just don't get it. It's almost like some folk enjoy the suffering and playing the downtrodden supporter.

My own view is that while performances can be very laboured and we aren't playing the swashbuckling football I'd like to see, the league position is decent and given we have had a lot of solid players out through injury then there is a chance it might pick up. It's certainly nowhere near the worst team or manager I've witnessed over the years at Starks, not even close, yet some people are posting like it is.

[Big Berk]

I've said it before but if that is genuinely your view of Raith Rovers then why bother turning up to support them? I just don't get it. It's almost like some folk enjoy the suffering and playing the downtrodden supporter.

You, like many others on here think we're knocking the club.

Long before the end of last season those of us who were sounding the alarm bells were sneered at by people like you. You might like to consider the fact that many regular long term supporters are now giving up attending, some never to return.

[roverthemoon]

I don't think folk are knocking the club. I just think they are being relentlessly negative and pessimistic. For example, why on earth would you assume a 4-0 defeat to Queen of the South on Saturday evening?

Factor out the results against the two teams with vastly superior budgets who are scooshing the league and our record is Played 9 Won 5 Drawn 3 Lost 1. We've kept a clean sheet or conceded only one goal in 8 of these 9 games. Ok the one defeat and the loss of 4 goals came against Queen of the South but their winner came from a deflection in injury time and we also scored 3 times in that game which suggests their defence is also ropey. In our last two games we've lost narrowly but performed well against Hearts and beaten Cowdenbeath so we're not exactly on a downward spiral of defeats.

So what gives you the impression we'll get humped by 4 goals? In the absence of cold hard facts I can only assume it's out and and out pessimism or doomongering or whatever label you want to give it.

[roverthemoon]

Also for someone who keeps going on about talking about football and not being personal you seem to have a fondness for the phrase 'people like you' I see you even went to the bother of editing your last post to add that phrase in. What do you like so much about it?

[Michael W]

I agree that the league table doesn't look at all bad for us. However, there is the wider picture of why people feel the way they do.

Murray went into this season as an unpopular manager. After our horrendous run of form last season (3 wins in our last twenty), it was no surprise at all that people were fed up. Yes, it's a new season, but the slate isn't wiped clean - people need to have their minds changed by good performances and results.

We made a decent start, as we always do. However, we took a number of thumpings; something that was actually quite rare despite our flaws over the past few seasons. We saw poor form at home (only our second league win at home on Saturday) and a run of six games games without a win. The familiar signs of seasons gone by (good start, awful middle and usually a couple of big results near the end to remove the danger) were already flashing before us. Last season was actually the exception to that rule, if only because it didn't get any better at all towards the end.

It feels as if we haven't made any progress in years: we continually look good until about ten games in, have a prolonged spell of awful results and end up looking over our shoulders at the relegation spot which, mercifully, we have thus far avoided. Last season was, however, way too close for comfort.

The reality is that we are still where we were three years ago. Until we can become more consistent throughout the season, we aren't going to move forward, and that's why people are frustrated. We are stuck in a certain place and people are fed up with what appears to be the same problems not changing.

Why aren't we moving forward? I don't know. There must be some sort of underlying issues with training given our general pattern of results. Having learned under McGlynn, it's not reaching much to suggest that Murray will have adopted many of his methods. Yes, there are the standard crap tactics and players not performing, but I refuse to believe that these are the sole reason.

[Big Berk]

I agree that the league table doesn't look at all bad for us. However, there is the wider picture of why people feel the way they do.....

Thats the point ^

They dont want to acknowledge this and hide behind the results against the part time strugglers giving us a flattering league position our football doesnt merit. If they're entertained by the sight of figures on a league table more than the product on the pitch then good for them, but most fans know Rovers should be capable of much better.

[roverthemoon]

Why aren't we moving forward? I don't know. There must be some sort of underlying issues with training given our general pattern of results. Having learned under McGlynn, it's not reaching much to suggest that Murray will have adopted many of his methods. Yes, there are the standard crap tactics and players not performing, but I refuse to believe that these are the sole reason.

To be fair most managers over the last thirty years have got us to a point and struggled to get us any higher (the Jimmy Nic years aside which I think we'd all agree were exceptional). I suspect it's more to do with finances and the quality of player the club can attract than coaching but could be wrong. The one consolation is we do seem to be moving forward financially and off the field

[RoversMad]

Somewhat hypocritical, to say the least. I think its folk like you that dont like your 'everything's ok' opinions challenged, with desenters personally targeted.

In what way is it hypocritical, I've called for Murrays head in here on more than one occasion, and I like my opinions to be challenged or discussed that's why I post them on here...That's the whole point of coming on here, it would be a pretty boring forum if we all just came on here and agreed with each other.

Thats the point ^

the results against the part time strugglers giving us a flattering league position our football doesnt merit. If they're entertained by the sight of figures on a league table more than the product on the pitch then good for them, but most fans know Rovers should be capable of much better.

ok I cut out the first part of your quote here but I reckon 90% of Raith fans would agree with you here, maybe have a look at the way you word some of your replies and you may get a more reasoned debate.

Anyway sorry to Queens fans this stuff should be in our club thread.

[Big Berk]

To be fair most managers over the last thirty years have got us to a point and struggled to get us any higher (the Jimmy Nic years aside which I think we'd all agree were exceptional). I suspect it's more to do with finances and the quality of player the club can attract than coaching but could be wrong. The one consolation is we do seem to be moving forward financially and off the field

....anything to disguise and admit that the standard of football on show is unacceptable

[Big Berk]

...maybe have a look at the way you word some of your replies and you may get a more reasoned debate.

I dont recall you ever being civil to anything I type, but rather more inclined to be contrary for the sake of it.

[Scary Bear]

I agree that the league table doesn't look at all bad for us. However, there is the wider picture of why people feel the way they do.

Murray went into this season as an unpopular manager. After our horrendous run of form last season (3 wins in our last twenty), it was no surprise at all that people were fed up. Yes, it's a new season, but the slate isn't wiped clean - people need to have their minds changed by good performances and results.

We made a decent start, as we always do. However, we took a number of thumpings; something that was actually quite rare despite our flaws over the past few seasons. We saw poor form at home (only our second league win at home on Saturday) and a run of six games games without a win. The familiar signs of seasons gone by (good start, awful middle and usually a couple of big results near the end to remove the danger) were already flashing before us. Last season was actually the exception to that rule, if only because it didn't get any better at all towards the end.

It feels as if we haven't made any progress in years: we continually look good until about ten games in, have a prolonged spell of awful results and end up looking over our shoulders at the relegation spot which, mercifully, we have thus far avoided. Last season was, however, way too close for comfort.

The reality is that we are still where we were three years ago. Until we can become more consistent throughout the season, we aren't going to move forward, and that's why people are frustrated. We are stuck in a certain place and people are fed up with what appears to be the same problems not changing.

Why aren't we moving forward? I don't know. There must be some sort of underlying issues with training given our general pattern of results. Having learned under McGlynn, it's not reaching much to suggest that Murray will have adopted many of his methods. Yes, there are the standard crap tactics and players not performing, but I refuse to believe that these are the sole reason.

I agree. Under McGlynn, I felt we were constantly improving. Even during his last season, where we had a real relegation fight; after an awful start to the season we saw a cracking end to the season and the fans went away happy. I liked watching his teams. They were well set out and knew what they were doing, even if the style of football was a bit basic. There was also a sense of stability and direction under him.

Now I just see inertia on the park (not Iniesta, unfortunately). There is no vision or direction for the team, or the club for that matter, and the football is usually fairly poor. It looks like the team don't know what they are meant to be doing sometimes, and there is just no urgence about them. It's listless stuff and pretty uninspiring. For me, that stuff is for the manager to sort out.

Just noticed this is the match thread for QoS v Rovers. I'll try and keep the 'woe is me stuff' to the Rovers thread from now on.

[roverthemoon]

....anything to disguise and admit that the standard of football on show is unacceptable

No arguments on that here. The standard in the championship generally is very poor and it's also ridiculously over-priced. I include us in that. I think that's generally down to lack of money for quality players rather than shite managers. I've seen none of our opponents except Hearts and Rangers (in spells) playing good passing football. No coincidence that they are two clubs with access to more money than the rest of us

[Big Berk]

No arguments on that here. The standard in the championship generally is very poor and it's also ridiculously over-priced. I include us in that. I think that's generally down to lack of money for quality players rather than shite managers. I've seen none of our opponents except Hearts and Rangers (in spells) playing good passing football. No coincidence that they are two clubs with access to more money than the rest of us

If we agree so much why are you antagonistic? I most if not all the teams around us have better managers. I think you'll find that its generally agreed among the fans that Murray doesnt - and doesnt know - how to get the best out of the players we have. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I've seen more attractive football played by Junior sides (and I'm not thinking about Linlithgow Rose). We sometimes get a shock when Rovers burst into a rare decent spell of play (like the last 20 minutes against Dumbarton) so we know the ability is there but isn't planned for tactically. The priority for Bert is the result - in fact the result is all that matters, and that is clear from his interviews.