effeffsee_the2nd Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 A single change, like 'summer football, terracing or selling beer at the ground won't work by itself. There needs to be lots of changes all at the same time for a sustained period. The most important change needed is the attitude towards football fans from the authorities. This. As someone under 30 its more often than not youre assumed to be up to no good by stewards and police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 We hear this one alot but its only a reduction of 3 home games for 2nd teir and 4 for top tier. Chuck in group stage league cups and youre more or less as you were. Fair enough if youre a smaller team you get less games against the big teams but you also only have to play the shite teams twice aswell.That will be the group stage league cup thar is coming next season anyway, but just to replace pre season friendlies.If you take St Johnstone as a mid to smaller team in the Premiership and if based on last season with no relegation the season before last and that seasons play off teams in the "16 team" top league we would be losing 2 home games against Celtic and 1 against Aberdeen, ICT, Dundee United, Dundee, Kilmarnock, St Mirren and only replace them with games against Hibs, Hearts, Falkirk and Queen of the South. Hearts and Hibs would maybe cover the second visits of Aberdeen and Dundee United . Falkirk and Queens would replace the second visits of Kilmarnock and St Mirren but that still is a massive drop in income. The phrase Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyzone Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 It's all absolutely fucked. Scottish football is a dead duck, it's fans unwilling to change or evolve or embrace anything that night take it away from watching 90 minutes of crap and nothing else. Novel ideas are scoffed, change is a filthy word and we'll remain stuck in the dark ages while other sports modernise and TV conquers all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 So realy we cant risk such radical ideas becuase too many clubs rely on playing teams with large away supports. No other buissness could thrive by hangingbon to a larger COMPETETORs coat tails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonTon Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 So realy we cant risk such radical ideas becuase too many clubs rely on playing teams with large away supports. No other buissness could thrive by hangingbon to a larger COMPETETORs coat tails. That's not really true if we're making a fair comparison. There are many businesses that thrive with the help of the presence of a larger business. The last thing any business would want to do was take away any benefits of having a larger competitor while hanging onto the negatives. That's not to say that clubs don't need to learn to live within more realistic restrictions. The lessons of the past fews years have been that you can't just make a healthy top tier at the detriment of the rest. Yet the problem for me with the idea of a league of 16 is that it creates the potential for that to become even worse. We need a healthy second tier - one that doesn't bring with it too big a fear of relegation. My fear, simply put, is that a top tier of 16 downgrades everything else to a really damaging extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Maybe so but its hardly realistic for clubs to be do relient on large away supports that they need to keep the same set up for fear of worse. ( remember the armagedon we were promised ) i dont think we can just do nothing. When i go to the football i see way way more auld folk than kids. What are we going to do in 15 year when half them are dead? If half of the 2nd tier of 16 is part time so be it. You have part time teams in the 10 team one anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonTon Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Maybe so but its hardly realistic for clubs to be do relient on large away supports that they need to keep the same set up for fear of worse. ( remember the armagedon we were promised ) i dont think we can just do nothing. When i go to the football i see way way more auld folk than kids. What are we going to do in 15 year when half them are dead? If half of the 2nd tier of 16 is part time so be it. You have part time teams in the 10 team one anyway. It wouldn't be half though. We have to be honest with what we're saying here. There are currently about 20/21 full time teams. That's would mean only 4 or 5 outside of the top flight would be full time. It would only be the case that about half the league would be full time if the second tier remained at 10 teams. If it also moved to 16 teams it would be more like a quarter. I think in this respect the very problematic 14 is the highest we could go in the top tier - but I'm not certain that 14 gives any sort of a satisfactory solution. There's another problem - who really wants a 16 team top tier that only one team can win? The space between the 2nd tier and the top tier is where the excitement now exists. The introduction of play-offs has been a massive step forward, and a big part of that is teams like Hibs and Motherwell can get drawn into that position. That's less likely if there were 16 in the league. I just think that a top tier of 16 would create more problems than it solves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Is the league structure and football as bad as some on here make it out to be? I think it's little coincidence that the majority of fans who post in this section are fans of teams who are not in the top level just now and I suppose as a fan of a team who is thriving in the top league as it stands I won't want change. The only thing I really wanted changed was the introduction of play offs. We had countless runners up spots in our last spell outside the top league and we may not have won a play off but at least it would have been exciting. I'm happy to talk up the game. It seems too many want to talk it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Koop Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I have no idea why Mr G wants a 'member of the press' on this august body. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stewart-gilmour-played-seven-games-5960996 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonTon Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 For once I don't completely disagree with Gilmour. I don't think he's right about horrific attendances. St Mirren were in the middle of a poor season, and the crowds weren't too dissimilar from what they were at the beginning or the end of the season - there generally seemed to be a gradual decline throughout the season. He'd be right about the midweek game in January though - evenings in January aren't a great time for it. What I do agree with is that the season has to start a little bit earlier. I'm not sure starting the season on the weekend that so many people go away on their holidays is the greatest idea, but a mid-July league start would be good IMO. And getting some League Cup matches in midweek (which would facilitate an earlier finish to that tournament as well) would be good if at all possible (what's the UEFA rules on the League Cup clashing with Euro dates - I assumed that wasn't possible?). I think, generally speaking, if all clubs played league football between mid-July and mid-May, with a 3 or 4 week break in Dec or Jan (not interferring with the festive games) then we'd have a better basic calendar for the football season. A point I would dispute is people having no money in January. Everyone organises their finances differently, but for those like me that live wage to wage each month, December is the month that I'm skint. End of Dec/begin of Jan pay comes as a bit of a relief because of the lack of January expenses (obviously different for people who live on credit). Play 4 and a half months from mid-July to the end of November then 4 and a half months from Jan to mid-May, with a 3/4 week break before the festive games right in the middle of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 So realy we cant risk such radical ideas becuase too many clubs rely on playing teams with large away supports. No other buissness could thrive by hangingbon to a larger COMPETETORs coat tails. Our home support can be 1000 plus larger for the games against the Dundee team than for a visit from the likes of Partick or Kilmarnock if anything its smaller against Celtic still More games against local opponents would seem to be what the fans like in Perth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Aye right enough then. Lets not bother rocking any boats. Crowds are o the up anyway. At this rate they might back at pre recession (sp?) Levels by 2020. In the mean team wel continue to watch pish fitbaw and each season theyl be a new batch of half decent 17 year olds thrown into the first team play well for a year before getting their big money move to derby countys reserves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 And yet none of the 'problems' that you claim to exist in Scottish football have been demonstrably solved by any summer league structure in Europe. Thanks for playing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 How many times have i said. No full summer move. A resrtuctured league with 16 team devisions. More games in warmer months . People have mentioned alot of good ideas. Like perhaps beer. Safe standing. Fanzones / family zones outside the ground. Things to get people there early and spending money. Things to cater for young children before and after the game etc etc. All of these things have a far higher chance of suceeding if its not fucking baltic outside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Aye right enough then. Lets not bother rocking any boats. Crowds are o the up anyway. At this rate they might back at pre recession (sp?) Levels by 2020. In the mean team wel continue to watch pish fitbaw and each season theyl be a new batch of half decent 17 year olds thrown into the first team play well for a year before getting their big money move to derby countys reserves Our crowds were up by 20% last season so something must be working in Perth. The football is only poor if you compare it to Spanish football . Last season I went to the Montrose v Brora game followed by Man U v Arsenal the next day and the more enjoyable game with better goals was at Montrose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 How many times have i said. No full summer move. A resrtuctured league with 16 team devisions. More games in warmer months . People have mentioned alot of good ideas. Like perhaps beer. Safe standing. Fanzones / family zones outside the ground. Things to get people there early and spending money. Things to cater for young children before and after the game etc etc. All of these things have a far higher chance of suceeding if its not fucking baltic outside In what way is "beer" a "good idea? It's certainly not one that's consistent with "things to cater for young children" and "family zones". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I think those in charge of the Bundesliga would strongly disagree, and then probably point and laugh at that claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 16 team league, summer football, no playstations for youngsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I think those in charge of the Bundesliga would strongly disagree, and then probably point and laugh at that claim. Good for them. Not sure what your point is though unless you somehow expect to transfer the collective Scottish psyche out and replace it with a German one, We have enough problems at matches created by those who arrive drunk without adding to it by allowing them to drink more when they get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Do we? I don't really see much trouble from drunk folk at games except the occasional fanny who's had too much. Even most folk who have had quite a bit before games are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.