Pete's Frontier Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Got to confess my views are quite Daily Mail these days, I'm leaning towards Nigel. Good guy, likes a pint and a fag. Doesn't want to pay Brussels millions a day. Ed is not even giving us a vote on it - if he doesn't trust the voter why vote for the clod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Got to confess my views are quite Daily Mail these days, I'm leaning towards Nigel. Good guy, likes a pint and a fag. Doesn't want to pay Brussels millions a day. Ed is not even giving us a vote on it - if he doesn't trust the voter why vote for the clod? Welcome to the forum mate. Look forward to debating with you and hearing what you have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Let's not put this down to "left wing nationalism". Left, right, nationalist or unionist, we're all looking through our fingers at Oaksoft talking pure shite. It's actually painful reading, please stop. As a left wing nationalist, and a cool as f**k one you should take as your template, I have a full body riddy for what is going on here....and the Xmas one for that matter. That's my point exactly lads. I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with left wing nationalism, I'm suggesting that Oaksoft is some kind of Tory/Kipper masquerading as a Left wing Nationalist to make them look bad. I'm glad to see that this complete fuckwit of a poster who tbh was given FAR too much respect before and shortly after the referendum has now been recognised as a total walloper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete's Frontier Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Welcome to the forum mate. Look forward to debating with you and hearing what you have to say. Cheers mate, hopefully some good clean fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 What other professions aren't available to the young? Just wondering whether it's for the greater good if I defer on my teacher training application for a decade while I go work in a dead end job in IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 In my opinion life experience is an entirely legitimate term. Obviously there are plenty of numpties who have bags of the stuff and plenty of young folk with next t no none who would be fantastic MPs and leaders in society. But for me those are the exceptions. There’s obviously no scientific definition (for all the pedants) but for me it comes down mainly to work experience – with a few additions. - Have you stuck at a job for at least 5 or 6 years (at the point where you’re pretty much as good as you ever will be and are looking for the next challenge)? - The nature of how you got the job also counts. There is rightly a lot of concern about the number of MPs that leave university and move straight into the world of politics via some family or friend connections. These ‘advisors’ are simply jumping on the political bandwagon and all they do is increase the disconnect between the ruling classes and the people. - The role of MP is also a leadership role (despite a good argument above which pointed out that MPs nowadays are usually just seen as lobby fodder) as they represent their constituents. For me that counts as leadership – you’ve been put forward by your peers. Wisdom and experience invariably improve your ability to lead. It's not about a "scientific definition" at all: it's about actually explaining, in plain English, precisely what the f**k you are trying to claim merits the "life experience" tag, as opposed to apparent disqualifications based on the age occupational status or social class other candidates. This definition so far has unsurprisingly been lacking. - There is absolutely no basis by which "sticking at a job" for "5 or 6 years" merits any level of recognition on its own, and does not actually do so in any other role in the entire country. Your claim that it ought to hold merit in politics is complete and utter bollocks. It's simply not a credible achievement. - MPs are popularly elected to their roles. You can bitch and whine about how parties select their candidates for each seat, but it is actually incumbent upon the voters in any constituency to make their choice. Which, going by your seethe, appears to be yet another major hiring decision that in fact ignores the "life experience" tag that you're so fond of. - A word salad, that fails to demonstrate how your much vaunted "life experience" actually correlates to "leadership". After all, your "5 or 6 years in a single job" criteria doesn't in fact require the undertaking of any leadership roles at all. Sweeping the floors for six years, by your own definition, earns a "life experience" chocolate watch - this doesn't however mean that a floor sweeper is even remotely qualified to analyse huge amounts of social science data, to formulate coherent policy arguments or to co-ordinate the activities of a department of civil servants and aides. Anyway – after putting down my thoughts on the issue I had a wee google search to see if there was anything I’d missed. Below is the most interesting list of points that relate to life experience. Some thought-provoking stuff: The selflessness that one learns by raising a child The solemn, harsh reality of war The pain and organic tragedy of losing a friend The challenge in all life phases (emotional, physical, spiritual) that poor health and chronic illness bring The comfort and joy of having complete trust in another person The depth of love of a long-married couple The first time you experience culture shock The pride in creating something The emotional anguish of a broken heart The magic of memories The annoyance of dealing with retail customers The love of human compassion towards each other The hopelessness of feeling alone and isolated Well yes: the fact that a Google search for "life experience" dredged up that utterly cringeworthy list of entirely unquantifiable, vague, moralising claims confirms the point that "life experience" is simply a comfort blanket for life's losers. None of the above "life experiences" actually earns you credibility in any socio-political system in the entire world. It's just a particularly useless last straw clutched by the drop-outs from the University of Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Welcome to the forum mate. Look forward to debating with you and hearing what you have to say. Very good of you. I was about to post a Reynard alert. New member comes on and immediately posts contentious political views.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 It's not about a "scientific definition" at all: it's about actually explaining, in plain English, precisely what the f**k you are trying to claim merits the "life experience" tag, as opposed to apparent disqualifications based on the age occupational status or social class other candidates. This definition so far has unsurprisingly been lacking. - There is absolutely no basis by which "sticking at a job" for "5 or 6 years" merits any level of recognition on its own, and does not actually do so in any other role in the entire country. Your claim that it ought to hold merit in politics is complete and utter bollocks. It's simply not a credible achievement. - MPs are popularly elected to their roles. You can bitch and whine about how parties select their candidates for each seat, but it is actually incumbent upon the voters in any constituency to make their choice. Which, going by your seethe, appears to be yet another major hiring decision that in fact ignores the "life experience" tag that you're so fond of. - A word salad, that fails to demonstrate how your much vaunted "life experience" actually correlates to "leadership". After all, your "5 or 6 years in a single job" criteria doesn't in fact require the undertaking of any leadership roles at all. Sweeping the floors for six years, by your own definition, earns a "life experience" chocolate watch - this doesn't however mean that a floor sweeper is even remotely qualified to analyse huge amounts of social science data, to formulate coherent policy arguments or to co-ordinate the activities of a department of civil servants and aides. Well yes: the fact that a Google search for "life experience" dredged up that utterly cringeworthy list of entirely unquantifiable, vague, moralising claims confirms the point that "life experience" is simply a comfort blanket for life's losers. None of the above "life experiences" actually earns you credibility in any socio-political system in the entire world. It's just a particularly useless last straw clutched by the drop-outs from the University of Life. Just as well Lech Walesa had a repertoire of one-liners and an impressive moustache, then, wasn't it? As for MPs being popularly elected - it was bad enough int the days when people voted blindly along Party affiliations which were only vaguely understood, but now we hear people Talking about "Ed", and "Nigel", as if it's the fucking X-factor, not the future of the country they're voting on. Seriously, folks - it only happens once every few years. Go to meetings, ask the questions that are imnportant to you, listen to and read what they all have to say, and vote for whoever's best for you and your neighbours. There is no such thing as a wasted vote, if that vote is cast by someone true to their own values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I don't live in the constituency, no. I have close links with the constituency party though. I was asked to put my hat in the ring and obliged as they are a decent enough bunch and would benefit from some fresh blood if they are to rebuild the party infrastructure. I'm under no illusions that it's anything other than an historically unfruitful seat for Liberals, having last been won by one almost a century ago. Not to be a dick about it, but do you believe you have any chance of getting the deposit back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Just as well Lech Walesa had a repertoire of one-liners and an impressive moustache, then, wasn't it? As for MPs being popularly elected - it was bad enough int the days when people voted blindly along Party affiliations which were only vaguely understood, but now we hear people Talking about "Ed", and "Nigel", as if it's the fucking X-factor, not the future of the country they're voting on. Seriously, folks - it only happens once every few years. Go to meetings, ask the questions that are imnportant to you, listen to and read what they all have to say, and vote for whoever's best for you and your neighbours. There is no such thing as a wasted vote, if that vote is cast by someone true to their own values. Don't get Lech Walesa bit. Care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Don't get Lech Walesa bit. Care to elaborate?There seems to be a predominant opinion on here (from younger, more impressionable posters, I reckon) that the idea of "life experience" is dismissible as an excuse for those who don't get on. Walesa was a working man (plumber iirc) who achieved great things without the benefit of university, management training, leadership courses or any of the theoretical knowledge it appears is now necessary to get into a position where you influence the lives of millions.What Walesa had was the support of his Union, the courage of his convictions, and a determination to do what was right. In particular, he acted according to the wishes of his constituents, not according to how his actions would affect opinion polls. He acted in a way that was good for people, not good for business. Unfortunately, fewer and fewer voters were even born back then - the TU movement is now seen as a negative force, and "Socialist" is actually used as an insult, most ironically by the American Right, who love their bible-bashing. Because Jesus would have joined the Republicans, wouldn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Despite his and Solidarity's proud record, Walesa is now considered a bit of an outdated thicko by a lot of young Poles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 There seems to be a predominant opinion on here (from younger, more impressionable posters, I reckon) that the idea of "life experience" is dismissible as an excuse for those who don't get on. Walesa was a working man (plumber iirc) who achieved great things without the benefit of university, management training, leadership courses or any of the theoretical knowledge it appears is now necessary to get into a position where you influence the lives of millions. What Walesa had was the support of his Union, the courage of his convictions, and a determination to do what was right. In particular, he acted according to the wishes of his constituents, not according to how his actions would affect opinion polls. He acted in a way that was good for people, not good for business. Unfortunately, fewer and fewer voters were even born back then - the TU movement is now seen as a negative force, and "Socialist" is actually used as an insult, most ironically by the American Right, who love their bible-bashing. Because Jesus would have joined the Republicans, wouldn't he? Walesa was a religious nut job and a homophobic c**t. Anyone who holds him up as an example of anything should maybe consider that before holding him up as some unsullied hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 before holding him up as some unsullied hero. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Despite his and Solidarity's proud record, Walesa is now considered a bit of an outdated thicko by a lot of young Poles. Walesa was a religious nut job and a homophobic c**t. Anyone who holds him up as an example of anything should maybe consider that before holding him up as some unsullied hero. Nothing unsullied about him, GD, and I don't think I proposed him for canonisation... To suggest he wasn't courageous would be to put these flaws above his actions. Just imagine if Churchill had been judged by the same standards as Charles Kennedy. Human beings are flawed, and maybe those young Poles should consider what their lives would be had Solidarity not grown out of those shipyards. But they, along with the populace of this country, probably believe it's better to trust in the current rightward drift of world politics - enriching a tiny minority while eroding the freedoms, rights and security of the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gullane No 4 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 What other professions aren't available to the young? Just wondering whether it's for the greater good if I defer on my teacher training application for a decade while I go work in a dead end job in IT. Self employed is quite a good route. My tip is to start with gardening. On my advice one of my redundant friends did this. Within 6 months he was turning down so much work he started employing folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I'd probably vote for Ad Lib if I could tbh, would be a great laugh on PMQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Could you please be very specific what knowledge through experience a 40 year-old plumber has in understanding the macroeconomic effects of a particular rate of corporation tax that a 23 year old law graduate is incapable of grasping by, oh, I don't know, reading a report from someone like the IFS in an evening? In the event I defy the odds and somehow become the Member of Parliament for East Renfrewshire, the only people with an intrinsically better understanding of the impacts of a change in tax law are: accountants, tax lawyers and economists. If you had even an elementary understanding about how Parliament works, like I do, you would know that in discharging their functions of scrutinising legislation and government policy, Select Committees educate themselves by calling experts to give evidence, and use that evidence to cross examine government ministers. You don't need to have run a business or been in private sector employment for 20 years to be an effective interrogator and analyst of policy. This is literally why we have politicians rather than just let the civil service run everything. This literally reeks of arrogance. As always, some good points put across as an absolute dick. Fine for a football forum. From a prospective parliamentary candidate, not so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 This literally reeks of arrogance. As always, some good points put across as an absolute dick. Fine for a football forum. From a prospective parliamentary candidate, not so much... When oaksoft is casually dismissing an entire sector of the electorate as inherently less capable than others of fulfilling the role of a legislator, based on a specious notion of "life experience" I frankly think that I have every right to be arrogant towards him in pointing out how utterly ridiculous his argument is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 When oaksoft is casually dismissing an entire sector of the electorate as inherently less capable than others of fulfilling the role of a legislator, based on a specious notion of "life experience" I frankly think that I have every right to be arrogant towards him in pointing out how utterly ridiculous his argument is. Our system is fucked. Murphy in charge of defence? That's just lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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