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General Election 2015


Ludo*1

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I won't apologise for the breaking of a pledge I didn't make, broken by a party I wasn't a member of either at the point that pledge was made or broken, in relation to a policy position with which I didn't agree at the time, and with which I do not agree now.

The new tuition system in England is better than the one it replaced, imposing more of a burden on higher earning graduates than before, less of a burden on lower earning graduates than before, increasing maintenance support for all and disproportionately to the benefit of students from low earner households, and it largely protects University provision without doing what the Scottish Government did when it savagely cut college places. College places that, as it happens, are disproportionately taken up by economically disadvantaged school leavers.

I am happy to stand by that record of action in government. My only regrets are that the Lib Dems didn't come round to my position earlier and that the Scottish Government has dogmatically refused to follow suit, leaving people here with a system that demands more from the least advantaged graduates than the English system and leaves would be vocational learners on the scrap heap.

Not sure that you will get time to put this across in your usual manner. I would get practice soundbites if I were you.

i.e. for the above, a simple "it wizna me" would suffice. ;)

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Aye aye Winston.

Yeah, it is a derivation of what he said but it is absolutely true. However cynical we are about the system, and whilst it could be tweaked (for example replacing FPTP*) it still has a great deal of merit. That is why the universal franchise, without encumberment, is essential and that's why there should be minimal barriers to people standing as candidates.

* By the way whilst I'm in favour of replacing FPTP let's not kid ourselves that PR systems do not have their drawbacks.

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Addy I think you are doing this because you are deluded by your own self importance.

I think you probably mean well when you say you want to help people but you are utterly deluded about your ability to do so at your age.

Along with other young people, you may well end up being the future but you sure as hell are not the present.

Someone applauded your courage earlier on this thread but it takes no courage to apply for a job.

Real courage would be to be self aware enough to understand that you are ill equipped for it at this moment in your life.

Real courage would be to go about fixing that in order to be a superb MP if and when you finally get elected.

Our country is up to its tits in debt and social problems. We need serious people with serious experience to resolve them.

What we don't need is a series of university students who think they are the answer without having spent any significant time in the real world of work.

Being no worse than the current crop of MPs is a fucking dreadful reason for standing.

Calm the f**k down, the guy is not going to be elected and knows fine well he wont be. He'll probably spent most of his time knocking on doors in a far more winnable seat for the Lib Dems. I know of a couple of people who have done this and stood in unwinnable seats or been placed on unwinnable positions on the list despite no actual aspiration to become a MP or MSP.

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Let me explain where age and lack of life experience becomes a problem.

Let's assume Addy gets elected.

The congratulations flow, Oaky gets pelters on here and fun abounds.

Then Addy goes to Westminster.

At Westminster they create legilsation which is essentially the creation of laws.

Addy is a legal student and is doing a PhD so it's fair to assume he has a reasonable legal background and will easily find himself a job on any one of the thousands of committees who write and check legal documentation.

So far so good.

Let's say he gets a job scrutinising a new bill which makes companies liable to pay tax at 25% on all sales in the UK (other alternatives are available).

He writes a beautifully crafted law full of nice terms he heard in lectures and legally it's watertight as far as a legal challenge is concerned.

The problem is thus:-

That piece of legislation will have intended and unintended consequences for businesses, for pensions, for import and export trade, for job creation, for foreign affairs in terms of our relations with other countries who might have a problem with their corporations being targetted and a myriad other intricacies which come from everything in modern life being linked together. This means that a problem in one area can have a dramatic consequence elsewhere.

If his law goes tits up there could be companies pulling out of the country, redundancies everywhere and consequent social issues which could affect the lives of millions of people and subsequent generations. Think coal mining, ship building etc. That sort of scale is ALWAYS possible if a loose cannon gets their hands on power.

My question is simply this. Where in Addy's 23 years has he built up and demonstrated any sort of expertise in dealing with this potential type of problem?

This isn't even about becoming PM or Chancellor. This is a possible outcome of simply being on a scrutinising committee which lacks the experience to understand or spot potential side effects of the law sitting in front of him.

I'm afraid experience is linked to age.

Age is no guarantee of experience but it's a bare requirement.

We used to phrase this as being "time served".

Could you be any more patronising? He's in his 20s not 10

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oaksoft staying true to form?

Oh, and I love how he goes on about life experience, while neglecting to realise that Ad Lib will get more experience doing this in an unwinnable seat than he could get doing it most other ways. If anything, this is exactly the sort of "life experience" he needs.

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At Westminster they create legilsation which is essentially the creation of laws.

:lol::lol:

Funny that in your patronising rubbish you firstly think there is a need to further explain what creating legislation means and secondly then go and fire in a typo!

Do you honestly think that the scenario you painted could only be understood by an older person? That your stuff about consequences and impact and pensions etc etc is way beyond bright individuals of any age?

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Let me explain where age and lack of life experience becomes a problem.

Let's assume Addy gets elected.

The congratulations flow, Oaky gets pelters on here and fun abounds.

Then Addy goes to Westminster.

At Westminster they create legilsation which is essentially the creation of laws.

Addy is a legal student and is doing a PhD so it's fair to assume he has a reasonable legal background and will easily find himself a job on any one of the thousands of committees who write and check legal documentation.

So far so good.

Let's say he gets a job scrutinising a new bill which makes companies liable to pay tax at 25% on all sales in the UK (other alternatives are available).

He writes a beautifully crafted law full of nice terms he heard in lectures and legally it's watertight as far as a legal challenge is concerned.

The problem is thus:-

That piece of legislation will have intended and unintended consequences for businesses, for pensions, for import and export trade, for job creation, for foreign affairs in terms of our relations with other countries who might have a problem with their corporations being targetted and a myriad other intricacies which come from everything in modern life being linked together. This means that a problem in one area can have a dramatic consequence elsewhere.

If his law goes tits up there could be companies pulling out of the country, redundancies everywhere and consequent social issues which could affect the lives of millions of people and subsequent generations. Think coal mining, ship building etc. That sort of scale is ALWAYS possible if a loose cannon gets their hands on power.

My question is simply this. Where in Addy's 23 years has he built up and demonstrated any sort of expertise in dealing with this potential type of problem?

This isn't even about becoming PM or Chancellor. This is a possible outcome of simply being on a scrutinising committee which lacks the experience to understand or spot potential side effects of the law sitting in front of him.

I'm afraid experience is linked to age.

Age is no guarantee of experience but it's a bare requirement.

We used to phrase this as being "time served".

Could you please be very specific what knowledge through experience a 40 year-old plumber has in understanding the macroeconomic effects of a particular rate of corporation tax that a 23 year old law graduate is incapable of grasping by, oh, I don't know, reading a report from someone like the IFS in an evening?

In the event I defy the odds and somehow become the Member of Parliament for East Renfrewshire, the only people with an intrinsically better understanding of the impacts of a change in tax law are: accountants, tax lawyers and economists. If you had even an elementary understanding about how Parliament works, like I do, you would know that in discharging their functions of scrutinising legislation and government policy, Select Committees educate themselves by calling experts to give evidence, and use that evidence to cross examine government ministers. You don't need to have run a business or been in private sector employment for 20 years to be an effective interrogator and analyst of policy. This is literally why we have politicians rather than just let the civil service run everything.

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Could you please be very specific what knowledge through experience a 40 year-old plumber has in understanding the macroeconomic effects of a particular rate of corporation tax that a 23 year old law graduate is incapable of grasping by, oh, I don't know, reading a report from someone like the IFS in an evening?

In the event I defy the odds and somehow become the Member of Parliament for East Renfrewshire, the only people with an intrinsically better understanding of the impacts of a change in tax law are: accountants, tax lawyers and economists. If you had even an elementary understanding about how Parliament works, like I do, you would know that in discharging their functions of scrutinising legislation and government policy, Select Committees educate themselves by calling experts to give evidence, and use that evidence to cross examine government ministers. You don't need to have run a business or been in private sector employment for 20 years to be an effective interrogator and analyst of policy. This is literally why we have politicians rather than just let the civil service run everything.

Largely agree, but a 40 year old plumber could have 20 years business experience behind him, publishing yearly accounts and be well versed in capital allowances, depreciating assets, P + L a/c's, paying CT ( if its a big firm) and suchlike. A plumber in this situation would also be taking rational business decisions and trying to be financially prudent.

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The big problem with having a lawyer type politician is that there is an incentive to pass new laws and legislation. Just for the sake of passing them, which leads to the bureaucratic mess we have now. After all, the more complex the laws of the country are, the richer lawyers can get as a result of being the only people who can work through and understand them. It's no coincidence that lawyers in general tend to overwhelmingly support leftist leaning parties. Due to them being more likely to pass new laws. Believe me, I know this from my granddad who recently passed away. He was a prominent member of the Lib Dems in the west coast of Scotland. The solution to much of the problems when it comes to business, employment and taxes. is to get rid of some of the laws and regulations we have. So it becomes less bureaucratic and easier to understand. But to do that means having politicians acting against their own interests. However, people do not act against their own interests unless they're backed into a corner over it.

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Ad Lib will only fail at this if he fails to get more votes than Reynard did when he stood.

I would never vote for you or your party but knowing that you are going to be a lamb to the slaughter you deserve a bit of respect for standing.

Bearing in mind what happened to a candidate in the neighbouring constituency (and a fellow Jag) it might be good advice, as some have said to check your history.

When you are on the hustings, you may want to start a reply to Murphy with a *sigh* I'd pay to see that

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Is Oaksoft actually a real person or was he a fictional character created by UKIP types to portray Scottish left wing nationalism?

7

Throw all the P&Bisms together, seething mess, verge of tears, scrambling for relevance, rattled etc, and you'd have Oaksoft's contribution to this thread. It's becoming the biggest embarrassment since the OP of that christmas TV thread.

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Is Oaksoft actually a real person or was he a fictional character created by UKIP types to portray Scottish left wing nationalism?

7

Throw all the P&Bisms together, seething mess, verge of tears, scrambling for relevance, rattled etc, and you'd have Oaksoft's contribution to this thread. It's becoming the biggest embarrassment since the OP of that christmas TV thread.

Look at Black and white army forum ( st Mirren forum) for OAKSOFT and REYNARD and STUART DICKSON

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Is Oaksoft actually a real person or was he a fictional character created by UKIP types to portray Scottish left wing nationalism?

7

Throw all the P&Bisms together, seething mess, verge of tears, scrambling for relevance, rattled etc, and you'd have Oaksoft's contribution to this thread. It's becoming the biggest embarrassment since the OP of that christmas TV thread.

As a left wing nationalist, and a cool as f**k one you should take as your template, I have a full body riddy for what is going on here....and the Xmas one for that matter.

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