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Why did No win the referendum?


AMMjag
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So if he didn't like or agree with it would he be allowed to vote NO then or is he still a spineless English Tory geriatric ?

Allowed to vote No?

People can vote whatever way they want, be it IMO against their own interests or a mindless ballot spoil. Doesn't mean I'm not going to comment on their vote or what I as perceive as weak arguments behind that vote.

Edited by AberdeenBud
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Allowed to vote No?

People can vote whatever way they want, be it IMO against their own interests or a mindless ballot spoil. Doesn't mean I'm not going to comment on their vote or what I as perceive as weak arguments behind that vote.

I deliberately wrote 'allowed' because the attitude of a lot of the YES voters comes across as very dictatorial, "the White Paper has told us how it is and thats the end of it, nothing to debate, just vote YES". If anyone disagrees then they either didn't bother to read the 'facts' or were too scared and selfish. Your own approach smacks of this.

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Three reasons I think No won

1. Yes lost the economic argument especially with their position on currency

2. The Yes side totally oversold the benefits independence would bring (which undermined their credibility)

3. A fair chunk of Scots recognise that the UK wasn't the basket case Yes were portraying it as

That Ashcroft poll shows that only 9% of No voters made up their mind in the last week of campaign. That's 180,000 folk. Even if they'd all voted Yes, No would still have won. The influence of the more powers promise is being overstated. Yes had lost the argument before that, in my opinion because of the above

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Where I think Yes could have done better:

- To repetitive on the majority of their issues (although that doesn't mean what they were saying was wrong). An example of this is obviously the position on the currency union. They should have kept insisting it would happen for a few weeks after Osborne's speech and when he and the rest of the BT lot continued to insist it wouldn't happen the SNP should have said, "right, here's what we propose now that they aren't playing ball". I actually didn't want a currency union by the end of it.

- They became as bad for the shitty soundbites as Better Together. "Scaremongering", and "Scotland's future in Scotland's hands" became particularly grating. But again, nothing wrong with the overall message.

- They should have dispelled certain myths about Scotland within the UK rather than exclusively focus on positivity. A lot of people clearly didn't buy their vision because of this.

If we'd won though it would have been the perfect campaign.

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Nonsense. You may not have liked or agreed with the arguments of why an iScotland would have been better but say they weren't made is laughable.

Claims were made with little or no substance behind them - the pronouncements on austerity and poverty were cringeworthy. It was basically a case of blind faith.

Anyone who pointed out the inconsistencies in the arguments was told "It's not about the SNP" - again, blind faith in there being a different political system.

Sorry, but I don't have that blind faith - especially in politicians who think nothing of taking political bribes from bus tycoons.

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I deliberately wrote 'allowed' because the attitude of a lot of the YES voters comes across as very dictatorial, "the White Paper has told us how it is and thats the end of it, nothing to debate, just vote YES". If anyone disagrees then they either didn't bother to read the 'facts' or were too scared and selfish. Your own approach smacks of this.

You admitted yourself you "didn't bother to read it", just after complaining "there wasn't enough information". This was rightly pointed as being at best a contradictory position, not "very dictatorial", regardless of your sensibilities.

Three reasons I think No won

1. Yes lost the economic argument especially with their position on currency

2. The Yes side totally oversold the benefits independence would bring (which undermined their credibility)

3. A fair chunk of Scots recognise that the UK wasn't the basket case Yes were portraying it as

That Ashcroft poll shows that only 9% of No voters made up their mind in the last week of campaign. That's 180,000 folk. Even if they'd all voted Yes, No would still have won. The influence of the more powers promise is being overstated. Yes had lost the argument before that, in my opinion because of the above

Aye, I would broadly agree with most of this, although No.2 less so. I didn't really see much of this "milk and honey" stuff tbh. And I would add the caveat I think these reasons only contributed as to why Yes lost the persuadable section of the No support. There's still a large section of the No vote who would have been almost completely unreachable regardless imo.

That's why I'm pretty baffled by "The Vow", it smacked of desperation and has given the Independence movement a rod to beat WM with when things inevitably go south.

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No didn't win, Devo max did. There simply wasn't a strong enough argument for independence or the status quo to convince any undecideds. However, apart from a few brain dead bigots, everyone recognised the need for change.

Will we get Devo Max? That's probably unlikely, given they wouldn't allow it as an option on the ballot paper. We'll possibly get some more powers, possibly not, but I can't see us getting Devo Max. Edited by Scary Bear
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Will we get Devo Max? That's probably unlikely, given they wouldn't allow it as an option on the ballot paper. We'll possibly get some more powers, possibly not, but I can't see us getting Devo Max.

the referendum wasn't about bloody devomax.

it was about independance for scotland from the westmister parliament.

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I gave up on the white paper, it fell short of mentioning fairy dust and rainbows but not by much. The white paper was as unbiased as the mainstream media that a lot of the YES supporters claim to now despise.

You admitted yourself you "didn't bother to read it", just after complaining "there wasn't enough information". This was rightly pointed as being at best a contradictory position, not "very dictatorial", regardless of your sensibilities.

I know it was getting late but I don't know how you extracted "didn't bother to read it" from my post. I did look at the White paper and read sections of it before giving it up as propaganda. Just because it was like 'the word of God' for you doesn't mean that I have to view it the same. Of course I didn't have to read anything, there was no test before setting foot in the polling station, I could have voted NO because Alex Salmond is fat or YES because Alistair Darling has funny eyebrows.

The evangelical nature of some of the YES voters on here is both scary and amusing but its done, the people of Scotland have spoken (sort off) so move on.

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Very interesting, though some of the responses seem a little contradictory. The fact that 62% of NO and 38% of YES voters claim that they always knew how they would vote means the arguements on either side were going to be limited in their success.

It would be good if there were further cross referencing between the answer to this question and the age groups as I think it is likely to show that the older groups largely accounted for those who were going to vote NO regardless.

Funniest response is the 12% and 25% of their groups that think we should NEVER have another referendum. Do people as stupid as that really deserve the right to vote? "Yes, even when I'm dead and buried the people of future generations have no right to challenge the result of the vote taken when I was alive".

As Oor Wullie (a definite YES voter had he been of age) would have said; Jings, Crivens and help ma Boab.

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Who mentioned the word of God? More straw man nonsense. It all stems for your initial (wrong imo) statement that there wasn't enough information. It's your right to vote however you want for whatever reason you want, but don't be surprised if you get called out by trying to justify it with fanciful claims.

Aye, it was definitely only the Yes supporters who were evangelical in nature. I mean it's not like 60 odd percent of them made their mind up regardless of any information or arguments, is it?

Move on, nothing to see here, back to business as usual. Something tells me that might not happen tbh. It may well do, but I strongly hope it doesn't.

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Will we get Devo Max? That's probably unlikely, given they wouldn't allow it as an option on the ballot paper. We'll possibly get some more powers, possibly not, but I can't see us getting Devo Max.

It doesn't matter if we get it, the point is they had to offer because the no argument wasn't strong enough on its on. Now all they've done is delay the inevitable; give more powers and people will realise full autonomy isn't as scary as they thought, renege on their offer and they're seen as untrustworthy and its game over.

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Will we get Devo Max? That's probably unlikely, given they wouldn't allow it as an option on the ballot paper. We'll possibly get some more powers, possibly not, but I can't see us getting Devo Max.

Devo Max was never defined.

The SNP shat out of doing so and embarked on a referendum they knew they'd lose so they didn't have to take responsibility for delivering it.

Cowardly. Salmond at least can hold his head high having wanted to go down the DM route. The rest? Weak and pathetic.

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